I have a question about the etiquette and possibly copyright issues with posting pictures of models other people have folded and photographed on my own website.
Let's say I'm doing a feature on a particular artist on my blog or whatever. I've written a short thing about how awesome they are and talked about their awesome origami creations. I've added a link to their website and all that kind of stuff.
Would it be ok to post some pictures that I got from their site? I would of course post a link back to the original source and fully credit them and all that. Having only text with links to their pictures is kind of boring and doesn't provide any incentive for people to check out their work.
I would also not hot link to the original picture. I know that's frowned upon.
I know you can directly quote text from some one if you give the source and credit them so does it sort of work the same way for photos?
I realize that I could try to get in contact with the artist and ask for permission but if the artist doesn't speak English or have any contact information I can't really do that.
So what are the thoughts on this subject from more experienced origami artists?
Thanks in advance.
Question about posting other peoples photos on your own site
Forum rules
READ: The Origami Forum Rules & Regulations
READ: The Origami Forum Rules & Regulations
Question about posting other peoples photos on your own site
Check out my origami resource website at: http://ultimateorigami.net/
I have to admit that I foresaw a topic like this coming up. After checking out your site (which is very nice, by the way, but I do have some reservations about new origami sites*), I noticed the lack of pictures in the diagrams/CP sections, which is something that I don't like; it's always nice to see images of the completed models, so that I can decide if it's something I would want to fold - especially true of crease patterns.
However, images take up a lot more space on servers than text does, so I know that hosting the images, as well as actually obtaining them, can be a bother.
I was hesitant to suggest having pictures, due to the ease of simply using other people's images, so it's nice to see this topic.
I don't think it would be okay to just take someone's image from their website and use it on your site, even if you link back to the original and give credit. The image would have to be licensed to allow such usage - I use such a copyright on my photos; Attribution, Non-commercial. This allows others to use my photos for non-commercial purposes but specifies that they must attribute the photo to me.
I believe that photos automatically become the intellectual property of the photographer (unless they're under contract by some third party to take the photos). As such, the copyright would probably be "All rights reserved", which means you'd have to specifically ask for permission to use the image under any circumstances.
A lot of people simply don't mark their photos with copyrights, or they don't pay any attention to the different types that can be used, so it might be that they would be more than happy to allow their images to be used in the context that you describe. Even so, asking is always the best way to be certain.
As an example, if you were to use someone's photo (without asking) and host it on your own site, the original site might delete the photo later (possibly to replace it with a new one, or just because they don't want it online anymore). You would have no way of knowing that the original had been deleted without checking, and the other person wouldn't be aware that the image was still viewable on your site.
Even with potential language barrier problems, you should seek to obtain permission from the photographer. If permission can't be obtained, either because it's refused, or because there is no reply to your request, you should always respect people's wishes. This is even more true if you want to set up a reputable website.
And I know you mentioned it already, but directly linking to the images is definitely unacceptable if they're hosted on someone's own server. Of course, linking to Flickr images is fine, as long as it's in line with Flickr's guidelines. Other image hosting sites probably offer linking in some form, too. But generally, unless the images are hosted on some photo sharing site which allows linking, you shouldn't directly link to images.
The other alternative, if you can't obtain permission for whatever reason, would be to fold the model yourself and take a photo.
If, for example, you did a piece on Satoshi Kamiya, and you wanted to show some pictures of his works, I'm sure many people before have used photos from his site (which are actually marked with "(C) Satoshi Kamiya"), and maybe it's already known what his thoughts are on people using his photos, but I would email him and ask him, both in English and using a translator to ask in Japanese.
If he didn't give permission, then I wouldn't use his photos. Fortunately, there are plenty of folders on Flickr who have photos of his models who could be more easily contacted, and there are probably some better photos to be found on Flickr, too - Satoshi Kamiya's photos are usually plain shots; Flickr tends to have some more artistic/creative shots.
I don't know if everyone agrees with my own thoughts, or even if the practices I mentioned above are used by the majority of people, but hopefully it gives you a better idea for how to proceed.
(*I think it would be a bigger benefit to the origami community if everyone tried to add information to some larger centralised site, rather than having a ton of smaller sites, many with the same info. It would be more work, I know, but I think the payoff would be better, too.)
However, images take up a lot more space on servers than text does, so I know that hosting the images, as well as actually obtaining them, can be a bother.
I was hesitant to suggest having pictures, due to the ease of simply using other people's images, so it's nice to see this topic.
I don't think it would be okay to just take someone's image from their website and use it on your site, even if you link back to the original and give credit. The image would have to be licensed to allow such usage - I use such a copyright on my photos; Attribution, Non-commercial. This allows others to use my photos for non-commercial purposes but specifies that they must attribute the photo to me.
I believe that photos automatically become the intellectual property of the photographer (unless they're under contract by some third party to take the photos). As such, the copyright would probably be "All rights reserved", which means you'd have to specifically ask for permission to use the image under any circumstances.
A lot of people simply don't mark their photos with copyrights, or they don't pay any attention to the different types that can be used, so it might be that they would be more than happy to allow their images to be used in the context that you describe. Even so, asking is always the best way to be certain.
As an example, if you were to use someone's photo (without asking) and host it on your own site, the original site might delete the photo later (possibly to replace it with a new one, or just because they don't want it online anymore). You would have no way of knowing that the original had been deleted without checking, and the other person wouldn't be aware that the image was still viewable on your site.
Even with potential language barrier problems, you should seek to obtain permission from the photographer. If permission can't be obtained, either because it's refused, or because there is no reply to your request, you should always respect people's wishes. This is even more true if you want to set up a reputable website.
And I know you mentioned it already, but directly linking to the images is definitely unacceptable if they're hosted on someone's own server. Of course, linking to Flickr images is fine, as long as it's in line with Flickr's guidelines. Other image hosting sites probably offer linking in some form, too. But generally, unless the images are hosted on some photo sharing site which allows linking, you shouldn't directly link to images.
The other alternative, if you can't obtain permission for whatever reason, would be to fold the model yourself and take a photo.
If, for example, you did a piece on Satoshi Kamiya, and you wanted to show some pictures of his works, I'm sure many people before have used photos from his site (which are actually marked with "(C) Satoshi Kamiya"), and maybe it's already known what his thoughts are on people using his photos, but I would email him and ask him, both in English and using a translator to ask in Japanese.
If he didn't give permission, then I wouldn't use his photos. Fortunately, there are plenty of folders on Flickr who have photos of his models who could be more easily contacted, and there are probably some better photos to be found on Flickr, too - Satoshi Kamiya's photos are usually plain shots; Flickr tends to have some more artistic/creative shots.
I don't know if everyone agrees with my own thoughts, or even if the practices I mentioned above are used by the majority of people, but hopefully it gives you a better idea for how to proceed.
(*I think it would be a bigger benefit to the origami community if everyone tried to add information to some larger centralised site, rather than having a ton of smaller sites, many with the same info. It would be more work, I know, but I think the payoff would be better, too.)
Yeah that all was pretty much what I was thinking.
Hosting the images won't be a problem, I've got more than enough space and they'd be a pretty low resolution anyways.
I do like your idea of contacting people over Flickr, I hadn't thought of that. That could work out quite well. I'm going to try to contact people that I can then and try other people through Flickr for stuff made by people I can't contact.
I'm trying to make my site into a super large centralized site because I agree with you, there are a ton of smaller sites many of which haven't been updated in the last 10 or so years and are full of dead links and stuff like that. That's kind of what prompted me to start working on this one. Hopefully in another couple of weeks or a month or so it will be that huge and centralized site I'm trying to make.
Hosting the images won't be a problem, I've got more than enough space and they'd be a pretty low resolution anyways.
I do like your idea of contacting people over Flickr, I hadn't thought of that. That could work out quite well. I'm going to try to contact people that I can then and try other people through Flickr for stuff made by people I can't contact.
I'm trying to make my site into a super large centralized site because I agree with you, there are a ton of smaller sites many of which haven't been updated in the last 10 or so years and are full of dead links and stuff like that. That's kind of what prompted me to start working on this one. Hopefully in another couple of weeks or a month or so it will be that huge and centralized site I'm trying to make.
Check out my origami resource website at: http://ultimateorigami.net/