Discussing copyright with non origamists

[orangewetland]

Hi there. I know this type of topic has been discussed but I need some help finding a way to communicate about it.
I have family members that repeatedly hassle me either to sell models or photos of models that are NOT MY DESIGN. Or they want to use photos of my folds of other peoples models in their publications. No matter how many times I try to say I will do no such thing without permissions, they won't leave me alone and just scoff and argue with my reasoning, wanting me to prove a lawyer could successfully sue me/them. It feels annoying and disrespectful that they won't give it a rest. I try to explain that it is important for me to be a member of the origami community, and that I care about what that means, not just law suits.

Please someone more eloquent than me tell me if there is a good way to communicate this to non origamists. I don't want to point these people to confusing old threads that got off track so I thought I'd try a new one.

Thank you so much.

[kareshi]

It's technically within your legal rights to sell your own fold of someone else's design... but it's ethically questionable and people usually don't do it without permission. All you have to say to people is that you don't want to.

[orangewetland]

Thank you
Sorry I was irritated and needed to vent

[Gerardo]

Please someone more eloquent than me tell me if there is a good way to communicate this to non origamists. I don't want to point these people to confusing old threads that got off track so I thought I'd try a new one.

Maybe you could explain the recengt legal dispute between Sarah Morris and Robert Lang, Manuel Sirgo Alvarez, Noboru Miyajima, Nicola Bandoni, Toshikazu Kawasaki and Jason Ku.

[Releashi]

Turn it around on them? If they are producing publications then they should know how much it would hurt to find their work ripped off somewhere. Also I'd just moral high ground them along the lines of 'I don't understand why you can't see how wrong what you are asking is.'

[steingar]

As far as selling models, you might mention the economics to said family members. Sounds like you could make way more working for Burger King. As far as selling photos, once you take a photo the copyright for that photo belongs to you, not the designer of the model you folded.

As far as the legalities, you are perfectly entitled to sell an artwork you created, even if you followed instructions.

[Timoris]

As far as selling models, you might mention the economics to said family members. Sounds like you could make way more working for Burger King. As far as selling photos, once you take a photo the copyright for that photo belongs to you, not the designer of the model you folded.

As far as the legalities, you are perfectly entitled to sell an artwork you created, even if you followed instructions.

Because I like to play devil's advocate...

What if you take a picture of the CP?
-- It Would be like photocopying a book.
* See Morris vs Lang

[steingar]

Because I like to play devil's advocate...

What if you take a picture of the CP?
-- It Would be like photocopying a book.
* See Morris vs Lang

Reproducing text is an entirely different matter than following instructions to create a work of origami art. The former is clearly covered in the US copyright statutes, the latter not at all. The US copyright laws are on-line, and you will find no mention of Origami anywhere.

Moreover, Lang et al. vs Morris didn't go to court, and hence failed to establish any binding legal precedent of any kind.

[Timoris]

This is true and almost a Shame, One can derive from a CP the same kind of information one can get from a technical manual - but I feel as though it will be my last comment on the subject, I do not wish to hijack and it has been discussed enmass in other threads.

[orangewetland]

Thank you for the thoughts and support
Sorry it takes a while for me to reply sometimes.
I did show them Lang's site and I think that may help.
I'm the kind of person that likes to be extra extra careful and try to generate good will and not ill will... unfortunately sometimes that makes people think I'm strange Well I AM strange but not always in a bad way.

[Timoris]

We do Origami; We're all strange.
Which makes us normal.