The Origami Forum

i have recently purchased the book 'origami bugs and beast' by manuel sirgo stunned by the amazingly realistic bugs found inside this book only to be dissapointed that sirgo just uses the same base over and over again and only adds a couple of folds to that base. now to me, this seems extremely unprofessional, but i would like to here your views and opinions on this topic.

I voted yes and ill explain why.
I thinks that taking one base and make so many different things with it is professional and artistic, actually he took one base and did so many different insects, and i think that is great.
The only thing i dont really like in his works (book), is that the final result you get from the diagram is most of the time doesnt look very similar to his folding.
The last model i folded from the book was the Goliath beetle and i folded it in the right way of the diagram, but the final result looked wired and nothing like his.
So i think the only problem with this book is that the diagrams are not very good, and the result at the most of the time is wired and not so good.

most of his bugs are nearly impossible to fold with a good result in the end if you have a paper that is heavier than -1gsqm. even when using my thinnest paper the end result is mostly disappointing. I once used a single sheet of tissue paper and applied mc to it. the result was ok, but the folding process was pure pain.

The main problem with his diagrams is that they only lead to a base and the shaping is completely up to you. The models itself can look stunning if folded from the right paper (zero millimetre Lang paper...) and shaped with enough patience. The method itself isn't bad nor good it just isn't fun to try to get an equal result as shown in the pictures.

I've been folding from CPs and tissue foil and have never really had trouble making the models look the way they're supposed to. Sure, my foldings aren't nearly as good as the designers, and tissue foil tends to crumple, but the model is clearly the same one in the picture. I don't really mind the fact that he uses variations on the same base and blintzed classic bases a lot. Jeremy shafer uses classic bases all the time, and up until a while ago they were the only ones out there.

but, when jeremy shafer uses these bases, he manages to be able to split the points in many different ways which manuel sirgo does not and he uses a large variety of bases and turns them into interesting shapes ex. the surfer on a wave. where manuel sirgo doesnt need to make interesting shapes, he just makes shapes that have most of the same size points ex. the tarantula. manuel sirgo usually only uses the points provided from the base ex. the jelly fish where as jeremy shafer manages to create flaps and distibute them across the model to exactly where they need to be ex. the glancer. manuel sirgo just uses the same folds over and over again and you have to repeat each step on 4 different sides usually ex. the lobster where, with jeremy shafer, you dont have alot of boring steps to repeat and the result looks 10 times better than what you can make from manuel sirgos book ex. piano playing pop up card.

Well, from a design perspective, it's easier to just re-use the same bases and techniques, but that doesn't always translate into interesting and fun diagrams.

I guess it all depends on what you're looking for in a diagram or book.

There's a word we have for people that re-use bases when it would be much better to create a new one... that word is Lazy.

For simple models, you don't have a lot of options and so using a bird or frog base is understandable. But for complex models, you really need to create a base for each model. Otherwise you end up with awkward, inefficient flap usage and a bad reputation

It's more than just re-using bases. Ron Koh uses similar bases for many of his designs. But his work for the most part. He's got a system, and his designs are all pretty good. Heck, even Satoshi Kamiya used very similar bases for his Reindeer, Flying Hercules Beetle, and Bahamut (the very base that John Montroll invented for his 3-headed Dragon.)

Sirgo on the other hand forces a lot. He uses short, thick, interior points, which have no business being used for anything but stability, as legs!...on arthropods! Those things with the long skinny legs...

I had to abstain from voting because I don't think, in the context of the original post and the ensuing discussion, either option would properly represent my opinion.

I am not a big fan of the style of the models in Origami Bugs and Beasts. That said, I don't consider the book to be "unprofessional". In terms of published origami books, the ones I would consider unprofessional are the ones that copy other authors designs and pawn them off as their own.

I bought his book, Origami Menagerie, which is translated from his Spanish origami book, but the diagrams are the same. His models are very hard to shape, and it's because he might use some kind of very thin tissue foil or something.

I always use A4 copy paper for clean and easy-to-shape models and use foil paper for bigger and harder models like Ancient Dragon or Divine Dragon (both are Satoshi Kamiya's designs.)

I also have Origami Menagerie and have folded a few of the models from it with mixed results. Mostly my paper is not thin enough to get good results. But I don't think this is a criticism that applies only to Sirgo - a lot of complex models now call for (relatively) large and quite thin paper to get good results. I am not a fan of this 'style', if you wan to call it that, when it comes to folding models. But,I still appreciate the skill that the authors put into designing and folding them.

For this reason, I still like Sirgo's models, particularly his own folds from 'Sirgo' paper. His designs are in my opinion mixed, I wouldn't call them 'samey' any more than I would call Lang's designs samey (get some points, split and thin them for a base, shape to taste or until the paper gives up!). Just because I can't get the same results as him doesn't mean his models are no good.

I was just looking at Origami Bugs & Beasts....and I can't seem to find any actual photos of the models from that book. Does anyone have them on their Flickr?...and come to think of it, I might check there...

I have Sirgo's bugs & beasts and it is actually the same as Imaginando en papel, which has pictures on Nicholas Terry's site
http://www.origami-shop.com/origami-boo ... 7-653.html

In fact, Sirgo uses a special paper the pepople call "Sirgo's paper". Here you can learn how to prepare this paper (20 gs/m): http://design.origami.free.fr/Sirgo/gallery.htm