Call for Submission of Diagrams and Crease Patterns

[newbpcpfolder]

You have no idea how pissed I am right now.

Can you guys stop acting like freakin sheep! Can you guys give the creator of this magazine a break. I'm not a heavy supporter or fan of Sok , but I feel that you guys should seriously give him a break.

C'mon, the website just opened. Some of you elitists, like Anna, think that the website is completely horrendous and keep criticizing it. Seriously, do any of you understand how hard is it to make a freakin flash site. Even international multi-national coorporations screw up occasionally. A flash site, though not as fragile as a Java or CSS based site is still bound to meet problems. You guys just seem to have zero idea how hard these websites are to make! This project is nearly independent. I doubt Sok had employed the best of the best web designers, due to his lack of budget. I know how difficult these sites are to make as I myself am a website designer.

Secondly, I know the price is abit exorbitant and over the top. However, this is a very miniscule project, Sok simply does not have the scale to make his magazines cheaper! I'm not saying 'pity this poor guy and buy his magazine', but at least stop spreading bad air and flaming him before anything comes out! Tanteidan is a huge coorporation. It is pretty obvious that they can sell cheap and cater to a large market. But Sok is doing a one man's show. If nothing, you guys should give him a pat on the back.

For those who don't trust Sok, I understand what you are saying. But don't you think that you are already spreading bad airs with no basis of blame? Its like I start spamming horrible words on your gallery or make baseless "This design is multisheet and cut" comments on you little galleries. Would you like that?

And now to the sheep. By sheep I'm meaning the spammybots. tskorigami, newbiecpfolder, or Tom, whatever you wnat me to call you stop spamming. Whether you are one flickr or on the forum, you should just stop spamming randomosity. The particular : "This is the worst ever" comment, I felt was extremely degrading to Sok. He had probably spent weeks, no months on this project and you call it the worst ever project? It sure is less crappy than your spammybotness and your little crumpled designs. Have respect for a folder who is way more experienced than you and who is willing to make the origami world a richer and more accesible place.

In conclusion, have respect for this guy. Have a heart, give him your support and phrase your criticisms well. Right now I'm feeling that you guys are being extremely inhumane. THe very least you guys should do is send him a letter of apology or such. Have a heart.

to that part about me:
well..that included less details.............worst ever means not that Sok is worst, I know him(no,no, I just know who he is), and his amazing worksm sure!
but well said, legionzilla or littlezilla whatever..................
I just described the cost prices, the website, etc.etc.
now i don't like being criticized by all, so I think i should make a new account and stop what I hate everyone calls "spamming" even though I reduced that a bit thede days, and just started faving. Even that is spamming for you. Just look at Sok's gallery on OUSA. his amazing works!
see how he designed his well known "air show" model?that is simply brilliant.you need appreciation, but looking at the quality, it just doen't seem like Sok. That's the problem there. And that's why he's being criticized. I sure hold spport for Sok, but with all this kind of stuff, it is impossible for me. I was just contemplating sending my Eupatorus diagrams to OUSA. A free complmentary copy if your works get published. But this program gives a bit more I think....A year's publications/////////////We'll see.....time tells all.................and please don't OVERLY criticize me about being a spambot!I am a genuine hyman, not a spamming robot, nor a sheep, so regard me as one of you, and not as animal or robots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I feel, saying this, we need to show the same feeling towars Sok and Company.Overly criticizing is not good.But anyway, i'm not good at diagramming.
Now to the "little crumpled designs" part. That hurt me very much. That is very disheartening for a DESIGNER anyway. And you're describing it wrong too.Crumpled DESIGN eh?this is no place for insults. Call them crumpled FOLDS, not designs. I take what you mean as crumpled trials at something. First of all, calling them crumpled designs, try your hand at the paper I use. You'll know yourself. If I have better paper, they'll not be "little crumpled designs", and I somehow have got a negative feeling about you now. I don't like insulting another person, nor getting insulted from a good guy like you. I don't want to criticize Sok, but the website, the cost, the rate of diagrams describe, etc. But I would still like to send them crease patterns for insects, there are a lot of my insect CP's in my notebook. They look messy though.have to redraw them in computer.... But still being appreciative of Sok, I don't like the website. I didn't call it the worst ever PROJECT too. I called it the worst ever compensation.I was in a hurry, so I jst didn't describe it and crammed all the details in. I've also heard that Sok is a good guy, but the problem is, no one would expect such criticism.

[DavidW]

I know how difficult these sites are to make as I myself am a website designer.

Then they need someone like you, a website designer. That magazine will fail or succeed based on the quality of their site.

I'm no expert but it looks like they created some kind of fixed pixel display for their flash driven site. Some complained that it was too large, while for me it is too small (my monitor is 1920x1080).

[DavidW]

i DO think 72 unpublished diagrams/year is a tall order and they will likely fail on that basis alone, just because that's an awful lot (unless, again, the models are all very simple).

I think so too. What do we have overall in our little community? Two or three dozen active origami designers that also diagram their work? And how many of them are prolific, designing significantly more than what they can simply publish in 2-3 convention books? And how many of those are willing to submit diagrams every issue when they can publish their own book every 2-3 years?

I figure the best case scenario is that we see the same faces publishing in issue after issue, worst case scenario is the magazine falls back in line with what other magazines typically offer such as JOAS-- 3 diagrams (2 simple, 1 complex) and one crease pattern challenge. If that happens the magazine needs good articles to compensate, but the best writers are already attached to their own magazines!

[bethnor]

I am a genuine hyman

O_O

greatest. freudian. slip. ever. (one letter off, but still).

[newbpcpfolder]

I am a genuine hyman

O_O

greatest. freudian. slip. ever. (one letter off, but still).

nice.you caught my slip.

[NoahRatcl]

I'd be happy to submit my 3D Cube Illusion. But why would you re-diagram the models? That's just dumb. I think it's interesting to see different diagramming styles from different designers in one origami book. You can see that in the Tanteidan, BOS, and Origami USA books, so why do it different here. Also, we should see an online sample of what the magazine will generally look like, which helps us decide if we'll subscribe or not. This is definitely not the most well done magazine I've ever seen, but I'm still not totally against it.

[Jonnycakes]

@Noah: The diagrams are redone, and I quote, "to conform to the style and content of Creased Magazine."

Don't call it poorly done if you HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN IT YET. And you probably haven't unless you are Sok or something. How about instead of calling the magazine (which hasn't even been released yet) an impossible endeavor or weakly put together, you help them out by submitting diagrams or emailing helpful, well-thought-out suggestions? Whining here about tiny problems or worse: problems that have not happened yet (and that there is no reason to believe will happen). If you really don't want to support this very cool project that promises to be a great resource for the origami community, then don't. Don't call it impossible until it doesn't happen. If you really want to complain, do it to the magazine and don't whine like a fool on an unrelated forum. If you don't like it, sit down, shut up, and stop whining ignorantly about a magazine that hasn't been released yet and you know nothing about. This is my advice.

[BluePaper]

I don't see why everyone is so against the idea :/ I think it seems pretty cool.

And I don't think the website was poorly designed. It seems to be rather well designed in fact. I think that problem is that it wasn't thoroughly tested. idk :/ I'm no expert on the subject. it is still possible to scroll down though. just use the up or down arrows keys on your keyboard worked fine for me :B as did the page down and page up keys.

as for the other issues brought up, while I do think the price is rather high, I think its hard to judge their choice in cost before we even know much about the quality of the magazine.

while I don't know if I'll submit diagrams to it (I hardly ever get around to diagramming any of my stuff anyway :/ ), I do wish it well

[DavidW]

But why would you re-diagram the models? That's just dumb. I think it's interesting to see different diagramming styles from different designers in one origami book. You can see that in the Tanteidan, BOS, and Origami USA books, so why do it different here.

I think that it would actually look better if the diagrams all had the same style. The reason that Tanteidan, BOS and OUSA don't do this is because it is a time consuming task especially for 200-300 page convention books.

[NoahRatcl]

Yes, but some designers (me, Anna) don't want our diagrams to be redrawn.

[newbpcpfolder]

@Noah: The diagrams are redone, and I quote, "to conform to the style and content of Creased Magazine."

Don't call it poorly done if you HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN IT YET. And you probably haven't unless you are Sok or something. How about instead of calling the magazine (which hasn't even been released yet) an impossible endeavor or weakly put together, you help them out by submitting diagrams or emailing helpful, well-thought-out suggestions? Whining here about tiny problems or worse: problems that have not happened yet (and that there is no reason to believe will happen). If you really don't want to support this very cool project that promises to be a great resource for the origami community, then don't. Don't call it impossible until it doesn't happen. If you really want to complain, do it to the magazine and don't whine like a fool on an unrelated forum. If you don't like it, sit down, shut up, and stop whining ignorantly about a magazine that hasn't been released yet and you know nothing about. This is my advice.

very well said indeed.
I support you now.

[origamimasterjared]

They won't accept hand drawn diagrams, presumably because they're messy. Look at the hand drawn diagrams of Dave Brill and Rikki Donachie. Don't tell me they're messy.

Since they will redo all the diagrams to fit their format, style, etc. they prefer easily editable formats. Original program files like Freehand, Illustrator etc. are preferred to PDFs and JPGs, which in turn are better for them than handdrawn scans. It's not about being messy, but about having the entire magazine be consistent and professional rather than a hodgepodge. Basically, they want the arrows, text, line widths, etc. to fit the magazine. And yes, there are many crappy diagrams, both handdrawn and computerized.

The defense of this magazine from Jared and Pharmjod is a little off the mark. Nobody is questing whether the producers of the magazine are nice guys or not, it's not about that. To summarize the objections so far:

(a) the website is poorly designed,
(b) the subscription cost is too high,
(c) the magazine is not offering enough compensation for diagram contributions.

I disagree. The website is not poorly designed. It is very well designed. The animation may be a little much, but the layout, colors, etc. are very appealing, and if y'all would actually read instead of whining you'd see that it's very informative. Yes, it needs a few small changes (like the music), but as a whole it is a beautiful website.

The subscription cost may or may not be too high. We won't know that for a while. It's probably not much more than the cost to put the magazine together and ship it out though.

Point C may be a legit complaint. The only thing I had issue with is that hardcore exclusivity contract.

Whatever it was that you said Legionzilla

I agree. Tanteidan isn't exactly a huge corporation though. They do have a connection with Origami House to publish stuff for them.

What do we have overall in our little community? Two or three dozen active origami designers that also diagram their work?

Ever look at a convention book? Get out of your advanced origami bubble and realize there are many intermediate designs out there, even if you don't fold them.

i DO think 72 unpublished diagrams/year is a tall order and they will likely fail on that basis alone, just because that's an awful lot (unless, again, the models are all very simple).

On the website, it gives a sample breakdown of the contents of an issue of the magazine as: Photos of the contents, 3 simple, 2 low intermediate, 3 intermediate, 2 high intermediate, 1 modular, 1 crease pattern. This is a magazine aimed at being a magazine for everyone with an interest in origami, not strictly at the advanced folder. Yes I agree, 72 unpublished diagrams is a lot, but it can be done. I think Origami Weekly had something like 58 in its first year. And most of them were advanced. The circumstances were a bit different as well. It was invite-only, and we specifically did not invite well-known authors.

Anyhow the magazine looks like it will be very nice. I am quite excited to see it come to be, and a few vitriolic remarks (and the sheep that follow) won't change that. Buy it or don't, but don't call it a rip-off before you try it.

Too long, can't read? : Quit whining. It looks awesome.

[garrasdecaiman]

before you start flame wars I believe you should think about what and why you are in support or against this initiative.
I believe it it important to be careful about the copyright of your models, and ask the magazine if it will allow you to keep copyright of your models or if you must relinquish your rights by sending them your work.
seeing it is a for profit venture it would be interesting to get some knowledge about their business perspectives, because it would not be convinient to relinquish your rights if they plan to make, videos, books, t-shirts or other methods of capitalizing from the work.
or in the case it fails if there will be a way to obtain the models which is not illegal.
furthermore, in this technological age the pirating and shareing of information it is difficult to mantain control over digital products makeing the whole digital magazine venture the less attractive as many people will likely be able to obtain the information without paying for it.

tanteidan magazines and convention books are running rampant in the forums and peer to peer networks, adding to the difficulty of getting ahold of these materials and their high price, it is no wonder they can´t make good profits especially if they don´t specifically cater to english speaking audiences, for example there is no english translation of issei´s supercomplex, tanteidan magazines, or many of fusé´s work.

so wether you like or dislike the magazine is unimportant compared to if you like or dislike their business model, the low quality of their page is understandeable as they are just beginning and should become better in the long run.

maybe I should start my own server to cater for the open side of origami
although I wouln´t know where to begin

anyway as time goes by it is becoming more productive to publish in a buisness model like PLoS than in Nature, and Sage is winning ground against Mathematica

I too believe the future of information is free, clear, high quality reservoires istead of more for profit ventures, anyway time will tell and we will see

X

[origami_8]

I apologize for starting this discussion that in my opinion is getting too far on some points (eg personal attacks). With saying that the site is poorly designed I wanted to point out that potential customers like myself may be driven away even though if the magazine itself would maybe be interesting otherwise. For a commercial project websites should be tested thoroughly and yes I know what it means to make a homepage like this. Working with loud music and colourful animations is dangerous on such projects, because some people may like it some not, but those who do not like it will close the site without even taking a peek.

About the magazine itself, I wish it the best of luck to be able to fulfil those high promises it makes. Getting enough diagrams over a longer period will not be easy. It's no problem to get a bunch of diagrams at one time, but getting the same amount over a longer period is not so easy, especially because they want previously unpublished models.

Please everyone calm down a bit and stop attacking each other otherwise I will have to close this topic and that's not what I want.

[DavidW]

Point C may be a legit complaint. The only thing I had issue with is that hardcore exclusivity contract.

Did they have something about not being able to republish the diagrams or was it simply can't use already published material (or both)?

Ever look at a convention book? Get out of your advanced origami bubble and realize there are many intermediate designs out there, even if you don't fold them.

I'm not an advanced folder, and I was counting intermediate model designers. Going by convention books, I think that two to three dozen sounds about right. How many active designers do you think are out there (clarification on tone: I'm not being sarcastic)?