origami: art or mathematics?

the modern einstein · January 24th, 2011, 12:37 am

It being just a few months after that great master of origami, Eric Joisel died, I would like to pose a question to all wether origami is truely art, as this man turned his origami into, treating his origami as sculpture, turning it into something, with a particular beauty or emotion to it, or in this day of mathematical geometry being applied to most origami models being designed to this date, more of a science, the mere reproduction of the subject that would declassify it as an art? Another option is that it is merely a craft, and the folding of the paper matters more than the final result? suitable discussion would be good. Even a balance between these things would be a good discussion point.

ahudson · Post by **ahudson** » January 24th, 2011, 3:16 am

Origami is all of these, depending on how you go about it. Most people practice origami as a craft, if that answers your question-- only a few people do origami as art or as science, and many of those tend to already have training in art or science, and do origami as an extension of their career.

the modern einstein · January 25th, 2011, 4:30 am

I have been thinking further on this topic, and have decided that the different aspects of origami are all based on this art/science/craft idea basis. The actual design and mathematical application to the construction of bases is pure science/mathematics. The folding and formation of the base on paper is a craft, and the formation of the basic finished model into the finished model with details turns it into a work of art. turning it into one neat package, which is origami. but what sort of activity is this really, that can be generalised with other forms of craft/art/mathematics. Maybe sculpture?

redheadorigami · Post by **redheadorigami** » January 25th, 2011, 4:39 am

this is one of the many things i hate, considering origami as Craft not art.
eric joisels work- art
robert langs work- science+ art
etc..
Its everything but craft.

orislater · Post by **orislater** » January 25th, 2011, 5:53 am

i hate it too man. my mom always talks to people and says, "yeah, he's the origami master" and they think 'oh how cute a 14 year old making paper toys

' then i show them and there like," O_O" then it starts all over again whenever my mom talks to someone else. so annoying.....

malachi · Post by **malachi** » January 25th, 2011, 6:20 am

The word "craft" seems to be encumbered by people's personal baggage. It is not intrinsically negative or dismissive.

craft, n. 1. an art, trade, or occupation requiring special skill, esp. manual skill

Given this basic definition, I would argue that origami qualifies as a craft.

orislater · Post by **orislater** » January 25th, 2011, 6:26 am

when i think of craft i think of cutting shapes out of construction paper and gluing them on a piece of poster board. for me a craft is something children do that makes a mess.

the modern einstein · January 25th, 2011, 6:28 am

It's not so much being branded as a craft, when it comes from people's opinions from outside our community, as they do not really know the full extent of what origami covers, but it really can be a bug when people think that anyone could fold some of the stuff that the more expert folders fold, and that it's only cranes and waterbombs, etc. I had to teach some kids how to fold just one simple origami model once, and their attitude is at first; yeah, we can fold this, and then they expect you to do all the work for them, because they can't fold it properly

.

orislater · Post by **orislater** » January 25th, 2011, 6:37 am

were they fifth graders? i taught some 5ths before. your exactly right. my mom tried to help them and she messed it up even worse XD. i also taught my friends one time. some were really good. some were good but refuse to admit it (wtf??) yes i know. some i just gave up on. i hate the stereo type that it's so easy a caveman could do it. then they try and epic fail, on the easiest models.
fun thing to do: randomly start talking to a non-folder about sizing tissue paper with methyl-cellulose. OT but im bored

malachi · Post by **malachi** » January 25th, 2011, 6:50 am

It is never a good idea to get me started talking about paper.
Fiber types and origin. Weight and grain. Sizing, resizing, backcoating. ISO (A4) vs. letter size. The travesty that some countries are changing currency to thin sheets of plastic...

Anyway, my point about "craft" is that it is, to some degree, in they eye of the beholder. If someone calls origami a craft and you feel it's a negative or derogatory term you might want to check with the person talking before you judge their intent. It means different things to different people, just like "art".

Fold · Post by **Fold** » January 25th, 2011, 7:51 am

I didn't vote.
I don't think it is an art or a science, but a combination of the two.

Sudden thought: Would Leonardo Da Vinci have liked origami? He (and many others, but I'm thinking of him in particular) was searching for something that incorporated both art and science. I think Origami may be what he was looking for. Hmmm... It's a shame we'll never know!

the modern einstein · January 25th, 2011, 9:38 am

Sorry, I did put in a combination option on the poll, but it just didn't work. I've just been thinking; that most origami artists out there in the big time incorperate more mathematics into their works than they do art. And I had a look around for origami artists from australia, but there aren't any really good ones! I've read a few articles on here that say Australia is one of the world centres of origami, but it's a wasteland (literally and metaphorically). I even saw someone who was selling robert lang's models against copyright laws! Maybe there's less "true" origami designers out there than we think?

Adam · Post by **Adam** » January 25th, 2011, 12:24 pm

Origami is certainly an art, but it is also definitely not science. After all, you can ask yourself the following question: Does Origami use the scientific method? Do people form Origami hypotheses that can be tested using empirical analysis? I've never seen such hypotheses. Origami is related to Mathematics, however, though not everybody actually uses Mathematics for their foldings and labelling the field of Mathematics as science is questionable.

Hence, Origami (including the Treemaker/Laser Pre-creaser work of Robert Lang) is art.

Quite frankly, I don't care how Origami is labelled; I, and hopefully others too, will enjoy folding regardless of whether it is deemed art or science.

Metangas · Post by **Metangas** » January 25th, 2011, 9:46 pm

I agree with Adam. I just want to add, that Origami can potentially be both an art AND a craft, at least that is what I think. The question is, what is art and what is craft here? We can all agree on that for example Joisel made true masterpieces of art, but I find it hard considering mass-folded "utility" models as art. That doesn't mean a heavily folded model is not art, I just want say that models like simple claws made for kids or so aren't necessarily art, but a handy craft still noteworthy in it's own right, compared to works made for exhibition.

Post by **origami_8** » January 25th, 2011, 10:28 pm

I agree with Metangas.
Most drawings and paintings that are done aren't art in my opinion. Art always has something special, unique. It's not what every child does in Kindergarten or school.
And just like I don't consider every drawing a piece of art, I also feel that the main part of Origami models folded aren't artistically precious.
But just like there are true pieces of art in painting, there are true pieces of art in Origami.
You can use the physics of Origami for science, but most people just don't do.

For me Origami is a hobby. Neither an art or a craft or a science, it is what I like to do.

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