Purism Debate

[Argonaut]

One of the most disputed philosophies in origami is purism. There are good arguments on both sides of the debate that I feel deserve merit. Therefore I believe it would be informative and fun to stage a Lincoln-Douglas style debate over the topic of purism. The use of evidence and/or articles to support your position would be encouraged, and one person would be affirming the following:

Resolved: Purist models should be held in higher esteem than models using cuts, glue, tape, and/or irregular shapes.

We can determine the finer details of the debate if there is enough interest, and I would like to know if any of you would like to debate or judge. Even if you don't agree with this, please leave a reply because I would like some feedback.

[phillipcurl]

I believe that origami is origami UNLESS you cut or tape it. in some models, you need glue (example: ryuzin 3.5) if you want it to last a while. Alternatively, you can use wetfolding but not everyone can do that. Also you could use wire.
it all depends on what you believe.

[fncll]

It would be interesting to learn any facts about how the history of origami plays into this. I've heard conflicting accounts: that the idea of purism stems from early origami as well as that it is a modern invention that wasn't reflected historically.

And at what point do cuts in origami make it some kind of kirigami?

[Argonaut]

I believe that origami is origami UNLESS you cut or tape it. in some models, you need glue (example: ryuzin 3.5) if you want it to last a while. Alternatively, you can use wetfolding but not everyone can do that. Also you could use wire.
it all depends on what you believe.

Are you talking about gluing the finished model to give it more durability? I think that would not violate purism.

[phillipcurl]

yes, that is exactly what i am talking about.

[kareshi]

It's easy enough to say a model that REQUIRES glue to hold it together at the end just isn't designed well.
Also, models I've designed seem to "require" tissue foil, but it may be possible to use "ideal" paper with MC and get the same/better result.
The idea of "purism" can't be rejected entirely, but instead you just have to understand that everyone is going to think of the definition differently.

The most basic "pure" definition is one square, no cuts.

I'd define "pure" that way, but if I'm asked what I consider "origami," I'll allow starting from any rectangle or regular polygon, though I have reservations about circles. Foil, MC are fine by me.

Colors: A printed detail on one side of a sheet can't be used to add detail. I'm talking about those awful kits you see in bookstores that have whole animals printed on one side that you just fold in half or whatever to get an elephant. Throw those out. One front color, one back color. Unless you're using patterned paper for the pattern's sake, not the model's (this is kind of hard to put in words...)

Cutting: No.

Multiple sheets: Outside of modulars, I don't really like it, because it's too hard to draw the line. Sort of case-by-case with me. Some of my designs are non-modular and multiple-sheet but fall within my acceptance range, notably the Gingerbread House.

Duy Nguyen: Bubonic plague to the advancement of the public seeing origami as art. Needs to be stopped.

[fncll]

Perhaps not quite as strongly, I agree about Duy Nguyen's origami books...

The issue of the shape of the starting paper is interesting. I wonder where the prescription of squares only came from? For me it's all about not cutting and not needing adhesive to make a model. Various concoctions might be useful to extend the life of a completed piece, including paper treatments and folds that need to be adhered because they will naturally spread apart as the paper "wakes up," but they shouldn't be required to make the model.

However, I do like Jun Kaekawa's note about the shape of starting paper in _Genuine Origami_, where he essentially notes that unless we want to work with a piece of paper of infinite dimensions, the shape of the piece of paper we start with is necessarily arbitrary, and nothing dictates that is must be a square. Indeed, in some ways a circle could be considered the purest form geometrically. Or a rectangle with "golden" dimensions, etc.

[phillipcurl]

Ryujin 3,5 techinically requires glue at the end if you want it to last a long time, as most people would.

[likeaboss]

No cuts and only one piece of paper

[dragon]

I consider origami to be pure of there are no cuts, no glue used during folding, and, of course, that you use a square sheet of paper. To me the main rule is no glue. I once folded Kamiya's phoenix 3.5 and the paper kept falling apart(I didn't know what MC was at that time), so I glued it together. I felt bad about it, so I gave it away.

[origami-artist-galen]

Yeah, Satoshi Kamiya does use glue, and not just for the Ryujin. In my mind MC is basically a glue as well, so even though I used to frown upon gluing anything immensely, it's not so horrifying anymore. I used it for the Ryujin of course as well as a few unryu folds.

I consider "pure" origami as requiring only one square sheet of paper without cuts. It's acceptable to use tape or glue on multiple sheets to make a larger square and you can paint or color the model in the beginning or end as long as it's only two colors and they are on the correct sides of the square, store -bought patterned paper is fine. All that said, I don't look down upon models folded from other regular polygons (okay, circles are a bit much), it's just that I've never designed any great models from them myself and haven't even tried in the longest time, it's easy for me to say they aren't pure origami. David Brill's animals out of equilateral triangles are definitely awesome...

But, above all NO CUTS!

[Axel´s Origami]

I say cut the paper! I say do whatever you wanna do.
But if you're lying, and say that you haven't cut then that no good.
I also think glue is ok. A few weeks ago I folded a model (lang's koi) and was gonna glue it.
But instead of mixing the glue (PVA) with water I just used it directly from the bottle.
It worked great, so I don't have any problem with glue.

[phillipcurl]

Cutting = no no.
I completely agree with everything that Shuki said, but I have seen some great models (mostly just by Lang) made out of irregular shapes or even circles. (or something like a circle)

[likeaboss]

It doesn't matter what shape the paper is but only one piece of paper and NO CUTS. Glue is okay for some models

[Argonaut]

I made a poll so make sure to vote. I think Irregular shapes are acceptable, and glue is acceptable if you are done folding, but using cuts, glue, or tape while folding, as well as the colored patterns that some origami kits have degrades the model.