The Origami Forum

Let me start off with a big let down. I don't know the secrets to a nice crisp paper BUT now I have your attention I can ask you what it may be! I've been making my own paper recently, mainly for fun and partly to see if I could create something worth using which would mean I wouldn't have to spend lots of money buying already made paper. I'm really enjoying making the paper and I've had a fair bit of success and managed to make some damn thin sheets (I'll upload some photos when I'm home from my girlfriends) however it all seems to be a bit soft.... I'm currently using standard copy paper from letters/old school work/parents old work/bills/confidential info etc which has been shredded so I thought it wouldn't be too bad because obviously there would be sizing in it already but its still a bit soft.

So what can I add to make it more crisp? Is the fact that it is quite thin contributing to the fact it's a bit soft? Am I just expecting too much?

I also really want to look into making paper from plant fibres but I'm a bit stuck on how to do that at the moment. I only have a kitchen blender at my disposal so I obviously can't go whacking lumps of tree in it. Would I be able to use cotton rags or plant fibres bought off the internet or would the jam/clog/get stuck in and around the blender blades? Would I be able to use them if I bashed it with a hammer rather then using the blender?

Any help would be appreciated and like I said I'll try and get some pictures up soon

After you make the paper (or during the process), try adding some sizing. With conventional paper, you can brush on some MethylCellulose (MC) to make it more crispy. There are hundreds of posts that describe this, so search and read... MC and tissue paper might be fruitful...

Yeah I'm aware of using MC to treat paper once it's made and already do that for tissue and mulberry, I was just wondering if there was anything to do to make the paper more crisp whilst making it. It coming out not quite as soft as sugar paper at the moment but it's still softer than copy paper.....

I'm pretty sure you can apply MC while you're making it to increase the crispness.

So just chuck some in with the pulp then? I had thought about that, but then when you put the pulp in the big bath would it not dilute the MC too much? Or would you just have to put a lot in....?

You can buy abaca pulp sheets from various places (twinrocker for one).
100% abaca will make good paper, and with MC it will be a bit crisper, but to get really good stiff/crisp paper you need hemp/flax pulp mixed in.
I find that a 70% abaca/30% flax mix give good results, but you'll have trouble finding flax pulp sheets, which means cooking and beating flax fibers.
Here is what I do:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/61599104@N ... 463394231/
I've since upgraded to a 12lb rock tumbler, and would recommend that highly for beating over what I've got shown there. I'll add MC to the pulp after I've rinsed it to remove excess pigment. I almost always mc a sheet of tissue to it, the combined properties are excellent.
You don't have to roll/press it, but it will take much longer to dry.

Having said all that, double tissue MC is still the best bang for the buck. Experiment with how much MC in the solution and you can get very nice, crisp sheets.

I've seen abaca and flax on the internet and wondered how easy they would be to use.
I notice on the instructions you have there you mass up the abaca with a blender and then 'pulp' it in the rock tumbler. I'm a bit confused by that.... What does the rock tumbler do? Or do you have to use the tumbler for the flax because otherwise it would just tangle up in the blender? Why do you beat them together for 2 days in the tumbler?

I also see that you add the pulp into the frame instead of the bath. I tried doing it like this at first but really struggled to get it to distribute evenly so changed to putting the pulp in the bath and pulling the deckle through(if that makes sense)

Great instructions though, given me a lot to think about!! Thank you

Beating the pulp is required to get high strength paper from pulp, and makes the pulp with very fine fibers that then can bond together to form a sheets of strong paper. You can order pulp pre-beaten, but it's expensive an difficult to store. The flax fibers need to be beaten to make pulp suitable for papermaking.
The flax is fiber, which I had to cook in sodium hydroxide for 8 hours, then cut up, and then beat. Since the abaca pulp sheets were already pre-beaten they don't need to be in as long. Currently I just throw everything together at once for 2 days, add pigment/retention agent, beat another 2, rinse, beat 1 day and then make my sheet. Depends how much pulp your beating, in my case I'm making ~36" square sheets so it's quite a bit of pulp so it takes longer.
Making large thin sheets is difficult. I'm still experimenting with ways to keep it flat while drying because it shrinks so much. It just pulls off any surface, even when MC'd to it.
The good news is if you mess up you can just take the sheet, toss it in the tumbler again for a day and try again.

So is the reason that mine is coming out quite soft more likely to be because I'm using a blender rather then a beater or because I'm just using recycled copy paper which wont have very good fibres in it?

Both are probably reasons, but more so the type of fibers you are using. It may be possible to use the blender with better fibers, but using copy paper with a Hollander will still give you bad results.

I'm fairly sure I can get abaca fibres suitable for a blender so shall I try those? Or are they still quite a soft fibre?

Buy a sheet or two of abaca tissue from an archiving sight - google is your friend. Get it in. MC it and try folding it, then MC a piece of regular tissue to it and fold that.

If you want papermaking to be an extension of your origami hobby then Abaca pulp sheets are pretty widely available, and you can pretty much blend those.
One test to do is to take a little bit of the pulp (just a pinch) and put it into a cup/jar of water and shake it up/stir it around. It should disappear. If you see clumps/fibers it needs to be beaten/blended more. Keep in mind beating is different from blending. You can hand beat the pulp as well.

Pure abaca is still great paper to fold with for complex stuff that requires thin, strong, sheets.
Abaca + flax/hemp > abaca > double tissue. Again, this is for complex stuff.

I still like the combination of a abaca/flax sheet mc'd to a piece of tissue paper best. It just seems to have the best set of properties.

Thank you so much for your help!
I'm definitely going to give the abaca pulp a try, maybe try hand beating it as well to see what difference that makes
I shall let you know how I get on! Also I might upload some photos of what I have made so far just so people can see. I've been playing with dylon dyes recently and managed to get some nice bright colours but seems to make the pulp behave differently in the bath.....

If you want to color the sheets buy pigments from a papermaking supplier. Pigments won't fade over time where dyes might. You'll have to get retention agent as well to get the color into the pulp, otherwise it just doesn't change color all that much.

mummykicks wrote:You can hand beat the pulp as well.

How would you do that? I want to start paper-making in the next year or so, but I don't think that I'll be able to get a rock tumbler anytime soon.