Downloadable Diagram Sales: coming to OrigamiUSA

[Bugfolder]

Hi all,

I've now mentioned in a few places that OrigamiUSA is working on adding the sales of individual diagrams (as downloadable PDFs), as well as other e-book formats (epub, mobi) through the Origami Source (http://origamiusa.org/catalog), with the sellers (people making the diagrams available) getting a big cut of the sales.

We've done a first round of testing on our system, and there was no fire or explosion (well, okay, one or two small ones, but nothing we couldn't put out), so we're ready for a next round of testing. And for this next round, we'd like to have some potential sellers try the system out and give us feedback on how well it meets their needs. We all know that there are tons of *buyers* out there for downloadable diagrams; but if we can't make the system attractive to *sellers*, it's not going to go very far.

Basic info for testers: testing takes place on a password-protected "sandbox" version of our website. You can upload real or fake diagrams, as you prefer. We'll test all workflows: sellers applying to sell, their approval, sellers uploading and creating products, those products' approvals, purchases and downloads, payment generation to sellers, sellers' reports on their products. Test transactions don't use actual money, and at the end of testing, the entire testing system data will be erased (so when we go live, authors will start over with uploading their real diagrams).

So, if you are an author who thinks you might be interested in selling your diagrams for download via The Source, and you're willing to participate in our system testing and give us feedback, please email me directly and I'll answer questions and/or tell you the details of how to get started and introduce you to the testing team.

And if you have broader questions about the system, ask away in the forum, and I'll try to answer them here.

Regards,

Robert

[steingar]

This is one of the best ideas of which I have heard. It simultaneously lowers the barrier for new creators to gain visibility and distribute their works, gives motivation for creators to write instructions for their work, and gives new relevance to Origami USA in the 21st century. The best of luck with the venture.

[qtrollip]

Hi Robert
Thank you for the info. I also think it is a good idea, something that was imminent to happen.

I have a few questions though:
1. Is there some sort of copyright or a way of not distributing the diagrams online once obtained? For example the watermark idea that has been used elsewhere?
(Sorry, don't want to open another copyright can of worms again, but I think it's a valid question).
2. How do you think this will affect submissions to convention books, both OUSA's and other international conventions?
Maybe contributors will rather now make some monetary gain instead of submitting to conventions, ie the decline of convention books?

Thank you
Quentin Trollip

[Bugfolder]

Hi Quentin!

Is there some sort of copyright or a way of not distributing the diagrams online once obtained? For example the watermark idea that has been used elsewhere?

Yes, PDFs will be watermarked. Other formats like epub and mobi, probably not.

Note that watermarking doesn't *prevent* redistribution; it just sorta nudges the buyer in the right direction. The hope is that with a little nudge of watermarking, and the inexpensive availability of legitimate copies, that most people will choose to buy their own copies. (This is the same rationale that iTunes now uses with all their non-DRM music.)

How do you think this will affect submissions to convention books, both OUSA's and other international conventions? Maybe contributors will rather now make some monetary gain instead of submitting to conventions, ie the decline of convention books?

That's pretty hard for me to predict. I'd expect that some number of people will continue to contribute to convention books (because they like to support conventions, or they like the impact of their work appearing together with that of other artists, or they like the prestige of certain convention books *cough*JOAS*cough*...but then after the convention book has come out, they'd put their diagrams up for individual distribution and sale.

And some people may well go the individual-diagram-sales-only route, this is true. I think we'll just have to find out how this is going to shake out. But I also think it's gotta be an improvement over the current lack of individual diagram sales, which is a need being addressed solely by file-sharing websites.

Robert

[qtrollip]

Hi Robert
Thank you for the speedy reply.
With the technology of today and the way most things are going electronically, this is obviously the way forward for origami diagrams too.
Kudos to you guys for being able to implement it!

One last question...
(Sorry to be the troublemaker)
Surely it is impossible for there be a panel to oversee the quality of the diagrams (as in the case of compiling a convention book). How will OUSA protect themselves from not being held accountable for the (partial) sale of illegible or poor quality diagrams?
With books one can usually see the type/quality of diagrams, but I suspect in this case one would be purchasing the diagrams "blind" if from an unknown creator.
Also, I assume the creators would be setting up their own prices (probably relative to amount of steps, popularity of the model etc...)

Thank you again
Quentin

[Bugfolder]

Surely it is impossible for there be a panel to oversee the quality of the diagrams (as in the case of compiling a convention book). How will OUSA protect themselves from not being held accountable for the (partial) sale of illegible or poor quality diagrams?

By declaring "caveat emptor" right up front. In the store documentation, it says that OrigamiUSA only checks for technical issues in their approval cycle, but does not judge diagrams for foldability and/or clarity.

However, we are looking into things that should help with policing quality: the sellers of products are identified with each project, and we're planning to allow commenting on products by those who have actually purchased them (not sure if this will be available at the beginning, though; it's an addition chunk o' programming.)

Also, I assume the creators would be setting up their own prices

That's correct, but there's a minimum price (probably $1.00).

Robert

[qtrollip]

Thank you!

[kareshi]

Surely it is impossible for there be a panel to oversee the quality of the diagrams (as in the case of compiling a convention book). How will OUSA protect themselves from not being held accountable for the (partial) sale of illegible or poor quality diagrams?

I'm wonderng how often
-a set of diagrams will be perfectly clear
-the downloader can't understand a sequence (perhaps due to going after complex levels before working up to it)
-the downloader directly e-mails the author for help, but can't understand the help unless the author spends extra time making a photo guide
-a negative comment is left about the diagrams being unclear

[mummykicks]

Surely it is impossible for there be a panel to oversee the quality of the diagrams (as in the case of compiling a convention book). How will OUSA protect themselves from not being held accountable for the (partial) sale of illegible or poor quality diagrams?

I'm wonderng how often
-a set of diagrams will be perfectly clear
-the downloader can't understand a sequence (perhaps due to going after complex levels before working up to it)
-the downloader directly e-mails the author for help, but can't understand the help unless the author spends extra time making a photo guide
-a negative comment is left about the diagrams being unclear

I think maybe a forum section here ought to do the trick, that way if authors chose to participate in answering questions they only have to answer it once.

I think this is a great idea, the problem I have with books and such is I end up paying for a bunch of models I have no interest in folding. This way I get exactly what I want.

I also think you should also have cp collapse photo diagrams/videos available in addition to traditional diagrams.

[Bugfolder]

I also think you should also have cp collapse photo diagrams/videos available in addition to traditional diagrams.

I think we can offer just about any file format, but it has to come as a single file; we're not anticipating selling multiple files as a single purchase product.

Videos can get pretty big pretty quickly, though. If we started getting gargantuan submissions, that would cause some issues we'd have to respond to (not sure how we'd respond, but we'll keep an eye out.)

Of course, everything depends on authors/publishers being interested enough and willing to create the files for sale.

[Rickygami]

At first I wasn't sure about the idea but the more I think about it, the more I warm to it. With advanced folders sharing their work through crease patterns more and more frequently, this will help make diagramming more rewarding again for folders who can't yet read CPs.

I am surprised you are having trouble finding sellers, it seems like the perfect platform for new designers to get their names out there and get people folding their models without having to go through publishing or creating a whole book, and make a little money in the process! Once the webiste is live i would be surprised if you weren't getting a decent number of diagrams added.

I was wondering if you would also allow designers to add crease patterns as well as diagrams. Since a crease pattern often comes "for free" I'm sure plenty of designers would like to publish them if they can do so with a few clicks. Although this may mean less free sharing of crease patters on flickr...

[Bugfolder]

I am surprised you are having trouble finding sellers

Sorry, I was unclear. I don't know if we'll have trouble finding sellers or not; since we're just in testing mode, we don't really know. I was just saying that it's something I worry about. But we won't know if my worries are justified till the system is live and has been out for a while.

I was wondering if you would also allow designers to add crease patterns as well as diagrams.

In fact, people can sell just about anything they want, as long as they clearly describe what's on offer in the product description.

Getting really imaginative, people could even sell *licenses*. You could buy a piece of paper that entitles you to fold and sell copies of a design, for example. (Although if that aspect really started to take off, it would cause some serious consternation among the programming team. But anything that takes off is a Nice Problem to Have.)

[Bugfolder]

Earlier in this thread, I said that OrigamiUSA was building up a system for selling downloadable files, such as e-books, PDFs, and downloadable individual diagrams. I am happy to announce that, as of today, 9/25, the system is open for business! Here's how it works in a nutshell:

--People apply to become "sellers" via the Origami Source (by providing name, contact information, etc.). Once you are approved, you can upload diagrams and e-books for sale as either PDF, EPUB, or MOBI format.

--Shoppers can buy your files through the Source the same way they buy physical books and paper. After buying, they get a link to download the file. Their website account pages show all files they've ever bought, so they can come back and download them in the future as well. The link is specific to the purchaser (who needs to be logged into a website account.) Purchased PDFs are watermarked with the name of the purchaser.

--Sellers set the price and receive 58%-70% of the list price, depending on the price. (The exact formula is: (seller share) = 0.7 x (list price) - $0.12, with a minimum price of $1.00) Sellers are paid quarterly, either by check or PayPal, subject to a minimum payment threshold.

That's the basics; more details are at these links (which you can also find in the SHOPPING menu of the OrigamiUSA website): http://origamiusa.org/about-file-downloads http://origamiusa.org/guidelines-for-download-sellers

Now, the system is all set to go (and we've been testing a prototype for the last month), but there are no files for sale yet. That's where you come in! We need sellers: people who are interested in offering diagrams and e-books for sale. If you're interested, here's how to participate.

First, read the description at the two links above. Then fill out the application and submit it. We'll try to review and approve applications within 24 hours.

Once you're approved, you can submit files for upload. There's a web form for that. All submitted files are reviewed and approved before they appear in the store. Normally, we try to approve all submissions within 48 hours, but for this kickoff, we'll be holding all submissions until Monday, 10/1, at which point we'll approve everything that's come in; they'll show up in the store (in a new "File Downloads" section), and people can start buying. I'll make another announcement at that time.

We're pretty excited by this. It makes it possible for anyone to sell their origami diagrams at the individual model level. We know people have been clamoring for something like this for years, at least from the buyer's perspective, but of course, such a system will only be interesting if there are sellers who create and post their wares for sale. So we hope that there are folks who are interested in doing exactly that, and we hope to hear from you soon!

If you have any questions about the system, feel free to ask, either on-list (for questions of general interest) or off-list (for private or specific questions).

Best regards,

Robert J. Lang On behalf of the OrigamiUSA Source and WebTeam

[phillipcurl]

I'm wonderng how often
-a set of diagrams will be perfectly clear
-the downloader can't understand a sequence (perhaps due to going after complex levels before working up to it)
-the downloader directly e-mails the author for help, but can't understand the help unless the author spends extra time making a photo guide
-a negative comment is left about the diagrams being unclear

I swear to god, if this forum gets spammed by anymore kids asking those questions, i'll shoot myself.


Anyway - this is a really cool idea, Robert. I'm sure that if anyone uploads some complex insect diagrams, i'll be buying them. (hint hint)

Good luck!

[steingar]

Most of the queries brought up apply to print media equally. One is subject to confusing directions in books, and no one can go through all the instructions before purchasing a book. Moreover, books can be easily copied and posted on the web, a bane to anyone who has published in traditional print media.

I suspect the difficulty will be in obtaining quality submissions for sale, due to the decline in diagramming and the rise in crease patterns and video instructions. I for one am not paying good money for a crease pattern, and I doubt OUSA owns sufficient bandwidth to support videos. Moreover, the instructional videos for complex folds can take hours.