The Origami Forum

i included a link to a youtube video that will hopefully resolve any questions on the formation of the wings...for those that dont care about my additional opinion...skip to the bottom

i read what godzebu was asking for which was help on the phoenix wings
viewtopic.php?t=3429
the buddah buddies that responded were of no surprise nor was the quality of help that was given...only the eagle post was of help ...the rest...from the normal crew... was just a steaming pile of rambling boredom...nothing new whatsoever...like pointing at the wall to a blindman or telling someone the way to the nearest gas station is close to bubba joe's burnt car just past the corner were mary-lou had her baby...

i know...it is frustrating...deserving dropped shaking heads and sighs...but there is no emoticon for that...

hopefully this helps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6Lf627HXDw


ROD

The fact that there's five or six separate threads on the phoenix and its wings explains why the thread started by godzeba didn't get anywhere.

And if anyone wants "a streaming pile of rambling boredom" then they can read your analogies.

Anyway, good work on the video. It validates everything that was said in the previous threads... but now that there's six threads, it's become difficult to find any useful information. This is exactly what I expected to happen....

this post has nothing to do with help on the phoenix...it wont get you nice shaped wings so skip it


ahh your ignorance is noted yet again...this is exactly what you expected to happen?...a clear concise solution to the problem at hand?...well of course...it's good that you listened during the basic sciences when evolution was taught...5 or 6 threads...eventually someone gets it right... but people still asking questions??...hmm that must mean the explanations were lacking...and it is the fault of those that didnt get the job done right in the first place...
nothingcomin has appealed more than once why?...quite obvious..put A and B together...have you gotten to that chapter yet?...wellllll his question was not answered sufficiently for the whatever-th time and instead this is what happened:

JeossMayhem wrote:nothincomin, do you think you can win with someone else's design?

do you know anything about this contest and what are the criteria?? does it fall into the help catagory?...no...you just read...and then typed something out...no thought process whatsoever...that is before A=>B...think before you do...

but....if you waste the time to read something that has been repeated...waste some more by clearing the problem up...but no...about ten posts of garbage was the result...

my thought on the general progression of help:
written===>photo===>video

quick and primitive answers only add to the clutter

garbage in = people providing useless answers to questions
garbage out = people repeating their questions

true marked intelligence is the ability to explain anything within your field of interest at the most basic level...(Dr. LeVert)

so what are we left with...people like jeoss...part of the problem not the solution...a retrogressed individual showing signs of intelligence eg almost good grammar with artistic capabilities...but lacking in the very basics


hopefully i have achieved a clear solution to the question with the video i produced....

this was my goal

wise up...and have a nice day

ROD

ps. thanks for the complement about my video

Again with the ego and subtly degrading remarks. Your elitist insults were half-baked and were founded on failed interpretations. Oh, and I was just reminded. This thread is yet ANOTHER on the pile... And numerous threads don't come from people not getting their questions answered, it comes from people not being aware of the search function.

And true, maybe the help that was posted is inefficient for some, but nothincomin is proof that it's possible to figure it out with what's there. Kudos to him for sticking to it and using his head. It beats being mind-controlled.

I'm expecting another thousand-word essay in response, but don't expect me to read it. It'll only prove how much you love talking other people down to build your pedestal higher. And whatever happened to this?:

It was wrong of me to simply post hate, it's not my style to be that way.

Now you qualify as an arrogant, elistist liar. Nothing's changed since your first post.

[garbage alert]

fire! fire! hell yeah!


well rdrutel your garbage in/garbage out lines really got me.
even if a new topic about the phoenix every two weeks can be boring and silly, you've got a pretty strong argument here . mmm i hope my english is vaguely intelligible. anyway... no offence meant to jeossmayhem, i'm in the bunch of retrogressed individuals, also!

well, "retrogressed individual"... that's so sci-fi

rdrutel- does rd stand for rude? just wondering.
also... I dont think anyones going to be compelled to help you after a post like the one that you just made.

quesoonfire, why not? the post maybe rude, but attitude and strong will shouldn't be dismissed in my opinion...and not in this case where there's also a shiny video as a proof of good work.

i'm not that phoenix feticist and i never really studied the damn wings, but after rdrutel's post i honestly thought that i should.

to quesoonfire...i know and i agree...if im in trouble ill let you know first ...side note queso-on-fire? is that cheese on fire? i think i am correct...but go fish

araknoid...youre a funny guy...i love humor...

jeoss...
this is a thread ontop of the pile...hopefully it is the tip and it will never grow...that was my goal...and not yours...i try to help and tell people to skip the crap...
great i am a liar...i dont simply post hate...i post a response in defence of somebody else...take some time to evaluate the post you gave to nothincomin and if you can rise to the level...why dont you make ammends with those who deserve it...(im not talking about me here )
after that...look at the proof you posted about nothincomin...was he able to follow what the previous post suggested? no...the pictures are proof...initially he wanted a phoenix like that of kamiya...but he didnt include the step my video shows...

so we have established a pattern here with you jeoss...one of failure...

hope you get better

ROD

no more argument but i got a question rdrutel
arent the wings backwards?
cause i printed out the CP and they look backwards? the feathers go to the inside?

hey colin thanks for contributing...

to be honest with you i don't know...when i came up with how this was done i figured this was the most logical way to get to what i could make out from pictures...maybe i should have described it as "a close resemblance" to kamiya's wings...because i know that they arent exactly his wings...however...the steps that i go through in the video fit into the end result somehow...this im pretty sure...and i believe they will help out those people looking for a form closer to kamiyas...let me know if you come up with something better....

ROD

Well, since we are getting into philosophical discussions (flame wars?) now, I can't resist . It is true that the question was not answered, but does that validate repeating it countless times? Saying it again and again will not change the answer (for the better at least). This is explained by the children's story, "The Boy who Cried Wolf". That said, kudos on taking initiative producing a helpful video.

And with that said, kudon'ts on the elitist attitude. I can't help but think that that was a motivating factor to producing that video. That is, so you would look better than others and have an argument against those who criticize you. Your laid-back 'cool' drawl of uncapitalized ramblings may include some insights and good points (such as pointing out the buildup of useless posts and the lack of sufficient help on the wings), but it also masks them and draws attention away from them.

There are a lot of 'garbage posts' from people that point out that people are posting multiple instances of the same question. They add posts without directly to contributing to the question. Those 'garbage posts' prevent those seeking help from asking the question so many times, thus limiting the audience that they get exposure to and simplifying the tangled web of threads and repeat questions they might create in the future. This way, they might get a more enthusiastic helpful response and make it easier for someone to search and find that answer. Correct me if I misinterpreted exactly what you were calling garbage posts here, but I am pretty sure I am on the money.

Yay for shiny videos! A just candy reward for adding unneeded garbage to the heap, while the ones who try to prevent future garbage by creating a better recycling system get scolded.

Asking the question once at a time should be enough.

hello jonathan,

so lets begin with the statement that repeating the question will not change the answer...the response may not have changed...but it was cleared up...colored...upped a cup...and has become more structured, visual and hopefully helpful...
moving on
the video was created during my last thread for those with diagrams that did not understand the roughness of the steps forming the wings...i am still not completely sure about them but i gave my best shot and explained what i did...in no way was it made specific for this topic...

hopefully the "video" draws away people from the other threads...if they need more help they should search on...as i said...my goal was to tip the pile and provide a conclusion
on to more discussion
you describe here

Jonnycakes wrote: There are a lot of 'garbage posts' from people that point out that people are posting multiple instances of the same question. They add posts without directly to contributing to the question. Those 'garbage posts' prevent those seeking help from asking the question so many times,

the garbage posting people point out repeated questions without directly contributing to the question and thus preventing the repeated question people from asking the same question again...

i dont see how not answering a question prevents it from being asked again... we saw this with nothincomin...he didnt have his question answered before so he asked it again...
if a kid raises his hand to go to the restroom...will the question go away if it is not answered? well maybe but lets not go there


since they ask the question again they increase their audience unlike you said because someone else can come along and then make a video of the wings...such as me

so you are almost on the money...he had the question before...no one answered well enough...or pointed to a decent direction because he posted it again...then he was given nothing better...no help and no direction...

now you did try to motivate encourage him and whatnot and that is great...unlike others...but in a help asking post... you provided no help and no direction...this was the garbage you posted and the garbage i refer to...

to recapitulate

1)asking the question again has changed at least the form of the answer
2)video was created earlier (but im a liar according to jeoss)
3)asking a question again has increased the audience
4)you did misinterpret what i defined as garbage
5) thanks for the compliment on the video

like i said before...i dont intend for this to be garbage...i intend closure...and by that my intention is meant to prevent future garbage by providing a solution


ROD

Here's the thing: he (nothincomin) did not just post asking for help, wait a substantial amount of time, and then ask again. He searched (which is good), (presumably for "phoenix"), found about six different threads, and posted the exact same question in all of them. Don't get me wrong, we are happy to help out. But one thread is enough. By posting in six separate threads that means there are six separate locations to look, which is highly inefficient and downright confusing. Yes, you are absolutely correct that some of the posts were not helpful, and some of us were too quick to jump on the guy. Nothincomin is a good sport, and appears to have taken the comments, sarcastic and helpful, in stride. He folded a very nice phoenix. You, yourself did a nice job at taking initiative and making a video showing how you folded the phoenix wings. It is not the definitive approach, but it certainly looks good and results in wings similar to Kamiya's. Good job!

One of the problems I think is that due to all the discussion about people's copyrights being violated and all the illegal sharing and so forth occurring on the web, people get a little out of whack in deciding what constitutes violation of copyright. Unless the contest is "original artwork only" you can for sure use someone else's design, so long as you folded it. Heck even then, if you make significant stylistic and aesthetic changes to the appearance, you're still good in entering, so long as you let it be known who designed it. There's a lot more to an origami piece than the design itself. There's the design, the paper, the folding styles and methods, the display, and so on.

Rod, to be honest, your posts are really difficult to read. There's good stuff in them to be sure, but the lack of capitalizing and standard punctuation makes it tough. (If you absolutely cannot capitalize, then I understand (my roommate's shift-key is broken)). So yeah, I appreciate what you are trying to say, but it would be more helpful if it were easier to understand. Also, less of an attack tone. People really do not have any intention to see you fail.

Edit: Sorry, I misspelled your name.

You made some good points Jared. I will take them into consideration. But come on, I am trying to be more like a CP, more open to interpretation, more using the brain, unforgiving to the weak, and blah blah that whole ramble. Well, I will try to be clearer and nicer, but dont get your hopes up about me...my hopes aren't up about you (plural)...



ROD

Postscriptum: Thanks for the compliment about my video interpretation

rdrutel wrote:hello jonathan,

I see you have seen my flickr...thanks for looking.

rdutel wrote:so lets begin with the statement that repeating the question will not change the answer...the response may not have changed...but it was cleared up...colored...upped a cup...and has become more structured, visual and hopefully helpful...

Sorry, my post was misleading in this respect. I meant to get across that the question needed only be repeated once. Anyway, that horse is already dead and buried, so...

rdutel wrote:moving on
the video was created during my last thread for those with diagrams that did not understand the roughness of the steps forming the wings...i am still not completely sure about them but i gave my best shot and explained what i did...in no way was it made specific for this topic...

hopefully the "video" draws away people from the other threads...if they need more help they should search on...as i said...my goal was to tip the pile and provide a conclusion

That is admirable of you. Good for you for wanting to clear things up.

rdutel wrote:since they ask the question again they increase their audience unlike you said because someone else can come along and then make a video of the wings...such as me

It is kind of like going into a room of 5 people and asking all of them multiple times in a row to teach them something. That would be perceived as whining or begging and not be an effective method of obtaining help (or a positive reflection of your character).

rdutel wrote:so you are almost on the money...he had the question before...no one answered well enough...or pointed to a decent direction because he posted it again...then he was given nothing better...no help and no direction...

So if you don't answer well enough your post is worthless? Perhaps your video was more helpful than these other posts, but since it is not exactly what Kamiya did, there is still more help to be given, and someone who wants to recreate Kamiya's phoenix exactly will seek more help.

rdutel wrote:now you did try to motivate encourage him and whatnot and that is great...unlike others...but in a help asking post... you provided no help and no direction...this was the garbage you posted and the garbage i refer to...

Thank you. I have not folded the phoenix, so I tried to offer what help I could-to encourage asking in one thread only which should elicit a more helpful response.

Don't get me wrong rdutel, I don't have like a grudge or a vendetta against you-I just really enjoy discussions/debates like this and I haven't had one for a while. I also think it is useful to think about these things to clear up one's personal philosophy, and discussing them with others will perhaps enhance their understanding and make the world a little bit better (Wow, that was really corny wasn't it? So many true things are like that, though).