The Origami Forum

Hi All,

Recently, I created a dolphin model incorporating a number of folds I learnt while making one of John Montroll's shark models. The early folds are based on John's shark diagram, but halfway through I add in my own steps to make it look like a dolphin. The dolphin model looks quite different from the shark model. Also, the paper size/length used for the dolphin is different from the size used for John's shark.

What I'd like to know is, can I say that this dolphin model is my own creation? Would I still need to credit John for using a number of folding steps from his shark model? I'd like to know what the right procedure for this is, in case I decide to diagram the dolphin and release it to others.

Also, some designs like the paper crane and jumping frog models -- who created them? How do you give credit for these models if say, I adapted and evolved them a bit, before diagramming them?

I'm new to diagramming and would really appreciate feedback from our more experienced folders.

Thanks, HF

Ah, here's another tricky copyright issue

I've always felt that if you change a number of the steps and the finished model looks obviously different, it is your model. If you use the base that Montroll created, you should credit him. Probably your best bet is to say "Dolphin, adapted from Montroll's Shark"

Those traditional models (crane, frog) have been in the origami canon for many years, so most times there is no known author. They are in the public domain.

You should always credit Montroll by saying that the model was adapted from his shark base, like how Joseph created a bunny from Forcher's fox. http://www.flickr.com/photos/josephwuor ... 441832755/ About the crane and frog base, nobody knows who created them, so it's safe to say they're fair game Also, they use the most basic of origami techniques. Every single model ever created have their roots in the traditional bases. If you had to credit a dead person that nobody knows about every single time you design a new model, it would get really old. The elderly will get sick, crime and accident rates will go up, children cry and the delicate balance of the Space-time Continuum will be disrupted. Then we'll all die and go straight to hell.

If you're talking about the base from around step 25 to 32, that base has been used so many times. I mean, yeah, if it was truly inspired by his shark, sure you may want to credit the inspiration, but that is one of the most obvious bases. David Brill's Rhino, Marc Kirschenbaum's Rat, and many other works use this same base.

origamimasterjared wrote:If you're talking about the base from around step 25 to 32, that base has been used so many times. I mean, yeah, if it was truly inspired by his shark, sure you may want to credit the inspiration, but that is one of the most obvious bases. David Brill's Rhino, Marc Kirschenbaum's Rat, and many other works use this same base.

The commercial featuring Lang's work, shows a Rhino also made from this base. Juan Gimeno made a nice Bison out of it. It is almost an intuitive base, but since you (threadstarter) did not come up with it entirely, give some deserved credit.

Hi All, Thanks for the feedback it helps a lot. At least I know I'm not doing anything wrong if i create a diagram adapted from another model, as long as I give proper credit.

I think I would go with notefold's and angrydemon's crediting suggestion, as in: "Dolphin, adapted from/based on Montroll's Shark." Or how about "Dolphin, inspired by Montroll's Shark." Which do you think is better/more appropriate?

Also, would I need to inform John that I'm adapting from his model? Or is it ok to just write it in the diagram? I would like to diagram my model for magazine submission or for release on the internet.

origamimasterjared wrote:If you're talking about the base from around step 25 to 32, that base has been used so many times.

Yes, this is indeed the case. Who was the original creator of this base? Maybe its more appropriate to credit this person instead?

angrydemon wrote: If you had to credit a dead person that nobody knows about every single time you design a new model, it would get really old. The elderly will get sick, crime and accident rates will go up, children cry and the delicate balance of the Space-time Continuum will be disrupted. Then we'll all die and go straight to hell.

Wow, this origami stuff is really dangerous ain't it

Thanks again - HF

I always say go to the source to find out what they really want.

I emailed Montroll and asked about the base, as to if it was his. His response...

"I did make up the base used for the shark. I would guess around 1986. I made up the shark on the train after a convention, somewhere around 1987. I made other models including birds with it. Indeed, I have seen it used by others."

He did not comment any further about other using the base. I think it would be nice to mention it is from Montroll's base though.

Thanks Origamiguy, for clarifying this. HF