Improvement of the ODB

[Aurèle]

For the ISSN/ISBN, can I use the same field for both ? Wikipedia say that ISBN got 10 to 13 numbers , and ISSN 8. A book can got an ISBN *AND* a ISSN ?

maybe if it is published in a collection, but we could forgot this

Hum, but some books got their introduction in 2 languages too... So we would have a list of languageS for the book, and 1 language per instance of model maybe.

I don't think it is useful. Language book is quite easy to evaluate seing in which langage legal mentions (printed by, in etc.) are done.

What are the differences, when you enter the model details, if it's on a book or on a booklet etc? If a book is unpublished, we just enter the future date of publication (month-year).

Booklet is a printed document without named publisher or sponsoring institution. Unpublished is not book which will be published, but document which are not published.

For the website type, I will manage online diagrams later I think. it is quite different compared to books.

Right. I dont think website is good. Electronic Document (Without support) should be right, but covered website, pdf, etc.

[Alexandre]

Ok so we got for each book : a language per instance of model, and an author nationality, and a publisher nationality. Yes it is enough, no need for another field "book language".

Booklet is a printed document without named publisher or sponsoring institution. Unpublished is not book which will be published, but document which are not published.

ok for the booklet. but for the unpublished book, why should it be in the database ? give me an example i am confused


And about the book type, I forgot the "CD-ROM". It is the same concept as a book. There are a few CDROMs registered in the current ODB.

[Aurèle]

Ok so we got for each book : a language per instance of model, and an author nationality, and a publisher nationality. Yes it is enough, no need for another field "book language".

I totally disagree with this : you consider that a book added to ODB is filled only with diagram. Take Kawasaki's Rose, Origami and Math: you find diagrams and a part on mathematics written in english, but Japan Publication Ltd is Japanese, Toshikazu Kawasaki is Japanese, you see ?

ok for the booklet. but for the unpublished book, why should it be in the database ? give me an example i am confused

I have written a couple of diagrams which I assemble for my students as The not so complicated introduction to Origami. Thirty years after, many students have given this to some origamic library and every one knows how to fold my famous Goose on the wall with an earthworm... before BOS published a book which reproduce my work.

And about the book type, I forgot the "CD-ROM". It is the same concept as a book. There are a few CDROMs registered in the current ODB.

Yes, and you forget too ebook, as soon as they are legal.

[Alexandre]

Thanks for these details, I agree with that.

[denori]

Just to chip in another couple of things.

Firstly ISSN is for periodicals only and many origami magazines DON'T have them. Also an ISSN is only unique for the magazine i.e. every edition of a periodical has the same ISSN. (e.g. the ISSN for the British Origami Magazine is 1745-3410 irrespective of the issue number)
Also many origami books published by societies don't have ISBNs. (None of the Origami House books have ISBNs)
Book published pre 1974 (roughly, I can't remember the exact date)almost certainly won't have ISBNs.

So, to summarise:
Books have ISBNs which will soon change to a 13 digit format.
Magazines have an ISSN that is associated with the title only, not the issue number
Therefore a book cannot have an ISSN and an ISBN.
Many items in the database will NOT have an ISBN, ISSN or indeed any form of identification beyond the title.

The ODB currently searches both the Original name and the translated name if they both exist.

And I firmly believe that if a diagram is available at all, it should be in the ODB.

I think Publisher nationality is useless. Who cares? I'm not even sure that the language of the model is appropriate unless there is a LOT of text, and that would be covered by the language(s) of the book.

It should also be noted that the BOS and OUSA currently use data directly from the ODB for their library pages.

I don't like comments for authors. I've included the ability to submit biographical data and photos but it hasn't really caught on yet.
Comments for models would be good but should be moderated (as with the rest of the database).

Dennis

[Alexandre]

Thanks for the precisions about the ISBN etc ! So I will use one field for ISBN/ISSN. If the book does not have any of this, in all cases, all the books will get an unique identifier, that could be use by librarians for example (and for the internal stuff of the database of course)

For the language(s) of books/instance of models, the debate is still open

[Alexandre]

Code: Select all

*publisher
-name
-nationality

*authors
-first name
-last name
-pseudo
-nationality
-birth (month-year)
-death (month-year)
-personal website

*books
-author_identifier (the person who make the book)
-publisher_identifier
-type (book/booklet/magazine/CDROM/unpublished)
-ISBN/ISSN
-publishing date (month-year)

*models
-name
-author_identifier (the person who created the model)
-picture
-paper format (square/$bill/etc..)
-number of pieces (1/2/modular/etc..)
-a list of tags, like "christmas","dinosaur","traditional","action"...
-complexity (simple/intermediate/complex)

*instances of a model
-book_identifier
-model_identifier
-language
-rating [in a separate table]
-comments [in a separate table]
-type (diagram/CP/PCP)
-first page of the model in the book
-last page of the model in the book
-made with a computer or written by hand ??
-number of steps ??

This is the temporary extract of the database structure. I do not include the tables for the users, the comments etc. I did not include all the hidden fields like the date of creation of an entry etc too.

[Aurèle]

it lacks the author of the diagram, mutliple authour of a book, handdrawn/computerdrawn/photo

[Alexandre]

The model author and the picture of the model is already in my structure. But I forgot to add the multiples authors of a book, good point.
Here is the corrected version :

Code: Select all

*publisher
-name
-nationality

*authors
-first name
-last name
-pseudo
-nationality
-birth (month-year)
-death (month-year)
-personal website

*books
-list of author_identifier (the person(s) who make the book)
-publisher_identifier
-type (book/booklet/magazine/CDROM/unpublished)
-ISBN/ISSN
-publishing date (month-year)

*models
-name
-author_identifier (the person who created the model)
-picture
-paper format (square/$bill/etc..)
-number of pieces (1/2/modular/etc..)
-a list of tags, like "christmas","dinosaur","traditional","action"...
-complexity (simple/intermediate/complex)

*instances of a model
-book_identifier
-model_identifier
-language
-rating [in a separate table]
-comments [in a separate table]
-type (diagram/CP/PCP)
-first page of the model in the book
-last page of the model in the book
-made with a computer or written by hand
-number of steps

[David]

For the language(s) of books/instance of models, the debate is still open

I agree with Dennis, the language of the books is not very important- a majority of Origami books use international symbols that we all understand- I have never been put off a book by it's nationality.
In fact does anyone have any spare copies of Origami 4 in any language.
Is it still available in hebrew? (only thing there is remebering to read it from right to left!)

There are some very interesting anomilies regarding multiple instances of models.
One in particular are the versions of Peter Engel's Kangaroo and John Montroll's Stegasourous in Kasahara, Kunihiko Origami for the Connoisseur.
While they are credited to their respective designers, they are both very different from the originals.

One of the complications of too much refinement in any system is that it in turn it often creates a overly complex input structure.

David

[Aurèle]

The model author and the picture of the model is already in my structure.

No,no, no, youhave not understand: i say that it lacks the athou of the diagram the person who has design the diagram. If you have aleady designed a diagram step by step, you should inderstand that it is very important to know that a diagram is a copyrighted work, as the model and the book.
And I mean "diagram in photos" which are different from haddrawn and computer drawn: it is a very common practic I dislike, but it is very different to others

[Alexandre]

thanks for your post david.
You will be allowed to add a comment for the book "Origami for the Connoisseur"

i say that it lacks the athou of the diagram the person who has design the diagram. If you have aleady designed a diagram step by step, you should inderstand that it is very important to know that a diagram is a copyrighted work, as the model and the book.

There is already an author_identifier per model, and a list of author_identifier per book. It's not enough? If we add an author per instance of model the ODB will become a real bloatware...

For the photodiagram you are right, I could not easily read your sentence "handdrawn/computerdrawn/photo|/b]" because the bbcode was corrupted.

I made an error for the picture of model, I will allow to put more than one picture per model.

[Aurèle]

There is already an author_identifier per model, and a list of author_identifier per book. It's not enough?

it is in model_instance that a diagram_designer lack. If you have an volume of Origami Tanteidan in your hand, just have a look on diagrams: a lot of them are not drawn by the author of the model. Diagramming is a lot of work, and may be done in a lot of way: a few diagrams of kawasaki rose exists, the rose is always designed by Kawasaki, the diagram is drawn by different persons and each diagrams have their interest or misconception.

[Alexandre]

I agree with that.
The user that add the book will probably have to add before all the authors of models/instance of models/book, before adding the book. I will have to add many "default values" in the forms.

[wolf]

it is in model_instance that a diagram_designer lack. If you have an volume of Origami Tanteidan in your hand, just have a look on diagrams: a lot of them are not drawn by the author of the model.

That's going to be unnecessarily complicated. If so, we'll probably need to put in names of photographers, magazine editors, etc as well.