Monthly Folding Challenge: October 2011

[kareshi]

Great month! My pieces were like bonus entries anyway- I use standard bases often and they weren't actually designed with this challenge in mind.
I'm interested in why the judge ruled out certain entries- they all seemed valid to me...

[Ray95]

This month you were all excellents.

The judge is a woman and like some models like the snails, it's like that, simple model and great result.

Some models charmed me at first glance (the pelican, the umbrella ghost, and some other ones), but more and more I watched them, the charm is gone, while for others, like snails, it increased.

[healatequila]

So what you are saying is, instead of judging on concepts such as folding accuracy/precision and design structure or technique, you went for models the only models that you could understand. From your broken grammar, it seems that English is not your native language, I think it is interesting to see which style of model appeals to different cultures. Aside from that, I am not at all shocked at the top 3 places winning, except for Anermak's, for the past year or so it seems most of the monthly winners are simple models, perhaps complex designing is quickly becoming a thing of the past.

[phillipcurl]

I think that the complex models are getting more complex, and the simpler models or getting more complex also. Therefore, we are seing more "simple" models that would have been considered "intermediate" several years ago.

[gab]

I would strongly recommend watching Between the Folds (for those who haven't already). It presents some interesting opposing viewpoints on complexity. Personally I like the part where Eric Joisel claims it was stupid to try to add pockets to a dwarf, and chucks the half-finished model off behind him. Personally, I feel like gracefully abstract models become more attractive in light of the mind-bending complexity that makes a lot of folders feel inferior. I'm not saying either is better; I like to court both sides. But, the psychology behind it is worth thinking about.

P.S. Thanks for the compliments everyone.

[healatequila]

It is interesting that you mention Eric Joisel from Between the Folds, he SURELY is the EPITOME of simple, none complex models, like his barbarians, array of animals, gargoyle, and commedia dell 'arte. I mean, without pockets added, his dwarf model is such a simple model! (end of sarcasm)

If YOU watched Between the Folds, Eric Joisel stated the pockets made the model thick and did not look that great, which is why he threw it away. The complex models from the competition of this month did not give the impression of unsightly layers or bulges or other unsightly effects from unnecessary details.

[gab]

I'm not intending to start a war. I believe Joisel's point was that at a certain point, complexity can distract from the beauty of a model. I didn't say Joisel never folded complex models, but you could say that he went for artistic complexity rather than the mathematical complexity practiced by folders like Lang, Kamiya, Chan, and many others.

And I certainly don't think any models from this month were unsightly.

[Razzmatazz]

So what you are saying is, instead of judging on concepts such as folding accuracy/precision and design structure or technique, you went for models the only models that you could understand. From your broken grammar, it seems that English is not your native language, I think it is interesting to see which style of model appeals to different cultures. Aside from that, I am not at all shocked at the top 3 places winning, except for Anermak's, for the past year or so it seems most of the monthly winners are simple models, perhaps complex designing is quickly becoming a thing of the past.

As the person who got 2nd place according to this judge...
No scratch that. As this first time I ever place or even are compared to the placing models in any origami contest I have entered; I am slightly offended.

Of course I am not at all accepting of my model being any good; but the judge won the last contest and must have shown quite great knowledge in modelling of origami, and I think that we should all trust his/her judgement on this. Again, it may seem bad that I am saying this as I placed but I have to point out that you stepped out of line when blowing off Ray95's judging.

Please open up your eyes to the judge's opinions for all of these contests. Not once has a judge ever made a wrong decision and Ray95 definitely has not either.

You can plainly see that Ray95 admires simplicity in models. I admire many simple models as-well, and if you look at previous competitions you can see minimalism everywhere and also simple models winning the whole thing.

Sometimes it takes much more skill to make a simple, 'perfect' model than a super-complex model. Please keep an open mind.

[Julien Gritte]

entirely +1 with Razzmatazz.
It may be good sometimes to remember what master Yoshizawa wrote.
Modeling & super complexity always passed by a simple reality structure & this, is the most complex thing to made.
And sometimes masters like komatsu (for example) linked both mathematics & life. Sometimes.
We are all humble students have set for sensibility of the fold. The lify one.
So i thank black~terror for been feeled to propose this argumented subject.

[Bass]

Um, can I get any feedback on my Wyvern (bottom of page 4)? It's my first attempt at seriously designing something from scratch. Anything's appreciated.

Nice entries otherwise, I'd love to learn how that Yak was made. Beautiful thing to add to my mental repertoire of models.

[healatequila]

O________O

I came second place. With snails... What?

I am sorry that you are offended, but read that quote of yours, it seems to show great surprise at the fact that you got second place. Just because Ray95 won last month does not make them an origami master, or even assure the fact that they will be a good judge of a model. When you say not one judge has made a bad decision makes me think you have not seen any of the past challenges, in my eyes there are many a time when I feel a judge has made a bad decision, but I did not visit this forum in the past when they were taking place.

Before you comment back (if you do), please, take another look over every single entry submitted this month and say you would agree with the winning models in the places they are in based on something you can actually judge on. I understand simplicity can be amazing, the works of Giang Dinh and Hoang Tien Quyet are astounding, but when you judge a model there should be some thoughts going through your head besides, "I look at it and like it", otherwise I feel it just isn't fair to the competitors.

Folding technique and accuracy should be taken to heart, as well as how well the model is designed. Of course looking nice is a large portion, but that is so highly subjective. Some think that using a white colored sheet would sometimes make a model ugly, while using a nice colored sheet of paper, even if the folds are clearly misaligned in the final figure, would be a winner (this is just an example to show how subjective origami, no art in general, can be).

[Razzmatazz]

Um, can I get any feedback on my Wyvern (bottom of page 4)? It's my first attempt at seriously designing something from scratch. Anything's appreciated.

Nice entries otherwise, I'd love to learn how that Yak was made. Beautiful thing to add to my mental repertoire of models.

Your wyvern is quite nice, Bass. I do like its wings a lot. The only thing I have critical about it is that it has no front arms and looks sort of weird because of it when I look at it hard. Besides that, I like it. I understand that finding flaps for the arms would be a dreadful pain.

EDIT:
__

I am sorry that you are offended, but read that quote of yours, it seems to show great surprise at the fact that you got second place. Just because Ray95 won last month does not make them an origami master, or even assure the fact that they will be a good judge of a model. When you say not one judge has made a bad decision makes me think you have not seen any of the past challenges, in my eyes there are many a time when I feel a judge has made a bad decision, but I did not visit this forum in the past when they were taking place.

Before you comment back (if you do), please, take another look over every single entry submitted this month and say you would agree with the winning models in the places they are in based on something you can actually judge on. I understand simplicity can be amazing, the works of Giang Dinh and Hoang Tien Quyet are astounding, but when you judge a model there should be some thoughts going through your head besides, "I look at it and like it", otherwise I feel it just isn't fair to the competitors.

Folding technique and accuracy should be taken to heart, as well as how well the model is designed. Of course looking nice is a large portion, but that is so highly subjective. Some think that using a white colored sheet would sometimes make a model ugly, while using a nice colored sheet of paper, even if the folds are clearly misaligned in the final figure, would be a winner (this is just an example to show how subjective origami, no art in general, can be).

I was amazed I had placed as the public never responded to my fold. And I also deemed it to be minimalistic and unlike a snail as its eyestalks were odd.

But I am biased towards my own models in thinking they don't deserve a placing. I think that anyone who wins these competitions are worthy judges of any models. You don't win purely by luck. Not in these competitions.

These models chosen for the places do demonstrate considerable accuracy of folding and much thought into the folding processes of all the models. To say they aren't would mean you must know how it was folded. I can say that they are all winners in their own categories and very diverse.

Julien Gritte showed much character in the models they folded and they are quick, simple, but still yet very interesting. Julien showed that not only can they fold one model from a single traditional base, but they can fold more than 9 from different traditional bases. They also show considerable thought and form a gimmicky family. Also added in names which I thought was cute

Snowblue has shown expertise in many forms of origami in previous competitions, winning even a (few) and the excavator that they folded was no exception to their genius. It incorportated minimalism, but also that 3D aspect that most minimalistic styles overlook. It was also very crafty how it was designed and was quite clean.

Anemark has also won a competition (I think?). It is no surprise that they got in a place as their Jack-'o'-lantern showed considerable modeling skills and the colour changes are fantastic and I don't think I could ever pull the same off. It's also a blowup which is quite awesome in my honest opinion.

I'll do the unthinkable and comment something good on my snails. They were simple. They fit together very well and were cleanly folded. I also took quite nice pictures of them on my mother's orchid

First place went to Gab and gab demonstrated how shaping is important in origami by far. Clearly Gab took some time to fold this yak as it shows very few excess creases and it makes you want to know how to fold it since it seems a lot of the inner mechanics of the model are hidden cleverly under the body and around the neck. I thought it was perfect in the place it received.

Maybe you open your eyes a little more to different styles of origami and folding. Open your eyes to the thought processes of these folders/designers that create these astounding models. Thanks.

[Bass]

Oh yea I wish I could fit some claws on the legs. However, I avoided arms because the mythologies surrounding Wyverns seems to conclude that they don't have "arms" as we know them, as they are a mix between bird and reptile.

[FlareglooM]

You cannot learn something without making mistakes. And often, if not always, these mistakes are not mistakes. They are necessairy events in life.
Let me clarify this more. I'll keep this general, so I won't call people by name.

Judging is partly objective and partly subjective. The objective things in our case are usually specified in the first post, aka the rules. The subjective part comes from our perspective, our point of view and cannot be specified completely. Art is not defined and this is where the problem apparently for some people begins.

The judge, and judges of the past, have all picked winners from their perspective. Those choices are not wrong and never will be. In the eyes of others they are wrong. But isn't this simply forcing your opinion onto others? You can always go into discussion and ask for the clarification why someone won, and this has been done. Though replying on that with that someone only could understand the models that are chosen I find, from my view, wrong. It is basically stating that someone's view is limited, yet is that really true? Usually it is the common opinion that is limiting people in their view.

I may be exaggerating, but again that is your opinion if you agree. Furthermore I hope that people will understand what I mean.

Everyone that participated this month, congratulations with your entries and congratulations to the winners, yes, you all are since you have created something

[healatequila]

First off Razzmatazz, did you look through the other models submitted and think about actual judging criteria for them and if you honestly agree with the placement of the winners? I HATE that you mentioned what you enjoyed about each of the winners, because I feel obliged to respond with my criticism of their models, and I do not wish to do so just because of an opposing viewpoint. Please do not make me take back these words, for I could scathe on some of the models that won based on criteria THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY JUDGE.

That said, I WILL comment this, I do not feel that (all of) the winners had poor models, as you pointed out some of the winners have competed before and have done well. I think I personally would have placed Gab's fish higher than the yak, but since they are both Gab's models, if I had placed Gab as the winner it would be a combined effort of all the models submitted by Gab, not just the yak (or fish in my case). That is not to say I dislike the yak in any way, Gab even created photo diagrams for the model which is great, it shows at least someone pestered enough for them to be made, which usually signifies a good model.

Aside from Flaregloom's response, I do not think anyone really got down to the problem of the judging of this competition. That said, in response to Flaregloom I must agree, my saying that I feel the judge did not accurately judge the models shows at least some form of a subjective view. One note though, the past 2 months aside there has been a very small amount of competitors for the past year. Check out the December 2010, January, February, March 2011 challenges. So few people submitted entries, can that possibly in some way be due to the views of the judges? I know that is going off on a serious limb, but in years past many people have submitted entries to the monthly challenges (check 2009). Since, the submissions died down over time, yet, many of the individuals that used to compete still fold if you check flickrs and such.