MC - Methyl Cellulose

[origami_8]

Yes, it does loose colour over time, especially if you place the model in bright sunlight. But it is a great paper for Tissue Foil and Double MC paper as it makes almost wrinkle and bubble free paper that folds like a dream and feels as if it would be one sheet only and not several layers glued together. Non-bleeding acid free paper is harder to work with but will true enough last longer.

[desuwulf]

and now to find a bleeding acid-free paper, best of both worlds:)

[Justinorigami]

You don't want to get chemicals mixed up by thinking same names mean same properties: H2O is a refreshing drink of water, H2O2 is poison.

I could really go for a nice cold glass of H202 right now.

By the way, I have found that when I treat my tissue paper with watered down white glue, it sticks to a glass window, but it peels of a mirror just fine.

[desuwulf]

You don't want to get chemicals mixed up by thinking same names mean same properties: H2O is a refreshing drink of water, H2O2 is poison.

I could really go for a nice cold glass of H202 right now.

By the way, I have found that when I treat my tissue paper with watered down white glue, it sticks to a glass window, but it peels of a mirror just fine.

How would you compare the PVA to MC folding wise?
(also do we know how pva ages compared to MC?)

[fncll]

As long as you go with an acid free glue then PVA will age quite well. That's one of the reasons it's preferred for bookbinding applications.

[Justinorigami]

Well, I have tried both, and they are pretty much the same. Pva is just easier to find.

[desuwulf]

how do you know if PVA glue is acid-free? I've never seen any that said that and wouldn't have thought about the glue itself needing to be that.(but reading from wiki it does appear to be a transformation from acetic acid so it could have acidic remnants?)

[fncll]

PVA itself is acid free, but the concoction used to distribute it as glue isn't necessarily. I don't really know the chemistry (I'm a poet

If you use a white glue (or a glue stick), for instance, that is a PVA glue, you want to make sure it is labeled as acid free (or use the Materials Safety Data Sheet). Only a few kinds of Elmer's glue (popular in the US) are acid free even though a half-dozen of their products are marketed and look the same. Many wood- and exterior- glues are PVA based but not acid free. Generally, but not always, an adhesive that is acid-free will be labeled as such since it's a selling point.

Bookbinders get pretty picky about glue (for good reason) and often go with relatively expensive PVA marketed for bookbinding, but for origami even the cheapest acid-free PVA white glue will be fine.

Bookbinding suppliers sell strips you can use to test a glue. I've never used them but they are probably just regular Ph testing strips...

[Benlewisorigami]

I have a funny MC story. So I made an AWESOME batch of MC that was as thick as yogurt, but accidentally left it uncovered. A week later, I went to prepare some paper, and it turned into a sheet of plastic..... tried dissolving it with boiling water and it turned all white and rubbery.... : /

[desuwulf]

okay after some experiments with various kind of tissue papers and unryus... I can say that the bleed resistant tissue papers are evil.
Some of the worst I have took more than 3 mins to let a fairly liquid mc mix go through, no wonder this makes making double mc paper so difficult....

The unryu sip it so fast, it's insanely easy to make completly wrinkle&bubble free...


Now the problem is that I have yet to find a non-bleed resist tissue paper that is acid-free... it's like there's only 2 varieties being sold around

[Phillip1847]

It shocks me when somebody says "a 1:4 mix, rather thin" or such.
A 1:8 much like glue, took half an hour to move across the container.
Are there any handmade papers you shouldn't MC?

[desuwulf]

been experimenting with many different kind of tissue papers, unfortunately every single acid-free one I've found was also very very much bleed resistant.
However, My last discovery is this: http://www.lateliercanson.com/fr_fr/can ... uleau.html

It's the canson tissue paper. It's insanely resistant, even wet.
It's also insanely hard to get wet even with very thin mc, but the bright side is that because it's so resistant you can really wet it first, then unstick and unwrinkle it and then put it back on the glass, works wonders.

[fncll]

It shocks me when somebody says "a 1:4 mix, rather thin" or such.
A 1:8 much like glue, took half an hour to move across the container.

I use 1 tablespoon to 1.5 cups of water...so about 1/24!

[desuwulf]

1:40 by volume with pure mc gives perfect sizing here

[desuwulf]

Just to add on sizing levels here, for double MC paper, starting from pure methylcellulose(alimentary grade):
All measures by volume.
1:20 - egg white consistency, very strong and thick sizing, glazed aspect, very nice to get a smooth shiny finish, hard to get through some of the more bleed resistant papers
1:40 - strong sizing, still nicely shiny, thin oil consistency, goes nicely through most papers, my favorite
1:80 - maximum dilution to still get proper adherence between the sh!t, after that you get the risk of having parts that don't adhere completly, and might come off internally during folding. Very liquid, though still gives the feeling of a cold vodka being poured. Goes through paper like water, use liberally to make sure it's properly applied everywhere.

Typically the workflow I find best with the very resistant canson tissue paper is:
- Cover glass that's 1mx50cm with 1:80 mix using a spray bottle
- Lay both 50x50cm sheets on the wet surface without paying attention to wrinkle, I usually have them rolled on a tube and unroll.
- Cover with 1:40 mix using a brush/roller/whatever. At this point you want to make sure the sheet are properly soaked.
- Pull out the first wet sheet, undo wrinkles in the air(usually happens just by holding it in the air) then turn it 180, and put down the 1:40 side back on the table. This time as it's already expanded and properly soaked, if you go very slowly you'll get a 99% bubble&wrinkle free put down. if it's not perfect, just pull up the corners again up to the center and slowly let the layer go down. The canson paper is resistant enough you can even push air bubbles out using the flat part of your hand. BE GENTLE, it will still tear if you force it
- Cover that sheet with a thin 1:40 mix layer, shouldn't need much as it's already wet.
- Pull out the second wet sheet, undo wrinkles in the air like for first, and apply like first sheet
- Cover that sheet with a thin 1:40 mix layer, shouldn't need much as it's already wet.
- Leave to dry for ~2-3 hours(might take up to 6)
- Get a sharp thin blade, and pull up a corner(I use a scalpel)
- VERY SLOWLY AND REGULARLY, pull out the sheet, making sure 100 times that it is not ripping on any of the borders(god it's frustrating making the perfect sheet and seeing it ripped of 5cm suddenly)

The sheet will usually get a little roll-on-itself bend, but it's nothing of real concern, when folding it'll go away.

To cut the sheet I just use the following method:
- fold roughly on first diagonal
- fold orthogonal diagonal by making sure to stay well orthogonal
- make creases sharp
- measure the two half borders to the same length(getting <.5mm precision on 35cm is good enough I find)
cut from border to border.