Noboru Miyajima's Knight on Pegasus/Dragon CP

origamibrent814 · Post by **origamibrent814** » October 28th, 2006, 12:06 am

I would like help on these cps either one or both would be great. I need help with reference marks and where to start collapsing.

http://www.h5.dion.ne.jp/~origami/e/kni ... ragon.html
http://www.h5.dion.ne.jp/~origami/e/kni ... gasus.html

Thanks

Luis Eduardo · Post by **Luis Eduardo** » October 28th, 2006, 3:18 am

MMMhhh...... well those cps are a little difficult, especially on the references parts.

I sugest you to use the reference finder by robert lang.

http://www.langorigami.com

About the pegasus..... If you cant make the cp, then you maybe can buy the tanteidan 73, i dony know if its still on print.

Ah, also , on the N terry page:
http://www.passionorigami.com

you can find on his works that he made the pegasus. Maybe you can ask him.[/url]

origamibrent814 · Post by **origamibrent814** » October 28th, 2006, 11:54 am

Thank you. I would gladly use reference finder but I don't know how to get the coordinate points unless it is in treemaker. Whay program do you use?

Thanks

Post by **Daydreamer** » October 28th, 2006, 12:33 pm

For getting the coordinates you will have to measure with a ruler. Take one corner as your (0,0) corner, from there measure the horizontal and vertical distance to the point you want to have to get (x,y). Then divide those by the side length of the square to get values between 0 and 1. These are the values you can use for reference finder.

origamibrent814 · Post by **origamibrent814** » October 28th, 2006, 1:22 pm

That solves my reference point problem. Yhank you. My other problem is with starting the collapse. I usually don't know where to begin collapsing. If possible It would be great if someone who has folded this could show me where to begin collapsing.

Thanks

Brimstone · Post by **Brimstone** » October 28th, 2006, 3:36 pm

origamibrent814 wrote:That solves my reference point problem. Yhank you. My other problem is with starting the collapse. I usually don't know where to begin collapsing. If possible It would be great if someone who has folded this could show me where to begin collapsing.

Thanks

I don't want to be a killjoy, but if you can't find the references and don't know where to begin collapsing, maybe this CP is not for you. Don't let a very difficult CP (and overall model) discourage you from trying to solve CP's. Just try something easier until you master the technique.

origamibrent814 · Post by **origamibrent814** » October 28th, 2006, 3:59 pm

What is easier the dragon or the pegasus? If I get one will the other be easier? When I said Where to start the collapse I meant, Where is it recommended that the collapse begins. Should I start at the head or tail? What are some other good Cps to practice on? I would really like to make these. Is there a picture of the base? Sorry for asking so many questions at once.

Thanks

Brimstone · Post by **Brimstone** » October 28th, 2006, 5:07 pm

I haven't tried any of them, but looking at the CP's I assume that the knight on dragon was derived from the knight on pegasus, so maybe you should start with the pegasus one.

References do not seem difficult. Start with a blintzed frog base. Unfold everything and try to find the creases that will still be missing.

the dragon one seems similar but with a graft on the side. Fold the graft in. Then do the blintzed frog base. Unfold and follow the procedure.

I do not know of pictures of bases for these models. Knowing MIyajima's work, I assume that after the base you will still have 50+ steps to complete the model and those you'll have to figure out on your own

Regarding simple CP's to start with checking the threads
viewtopic.php?t=1803&highlight=crease+patterns
viewtopic.php?t=1775&highlight=crease+patterns

viewtopic.php?t=162
viewtopic.php?t=667

Brimstone · Post by **Brimstone** » October 28th, 2006, 5:21 pm

I didn't answer the question about the begining of the collapsing, so in case you have already seen my previous answer, here I go again instead of editing my previous post:

Start collpasing from the right hand side of the CP. Creases next to the border are mountains (assuming the lines side up). The center of the paper should stick out (be convex)

origamibrent814 · Post by **origamibrent814** » October 28th, 2006, 6:06 pm

Thank you for your help. You are right. these are pretty confusing models. I wish I had the pegasus diagram. It would be easier than figuring out these cps. In my opinion the dragon looks easier, but that is just me. I still haveone question about collapsing though. Those triangles that look like the claws in his rooster. Should they be folded the same way? Or should I wait and sink them after I collapse the rest of the cp? If they would just show which creases were mountain and which were valley!

esato · Post by **esato** » October 28th, 2006, 11:35 pm

Daydreamer wrote:For getting the coordinates you will have to measure with a ruler. Take one corner as your (0,0) corner, from there measure the horizontal and vertical distance to the point you want to have to get (x,y). Then divide those by the side length of the square to get values between 0 and 1. These are the values you can use for reference finder.

Instead of using a ruler I suggest you use a program like "The Gimp", or any similar photo editing software to measure references. The Gimp for instance has a measuring tool which you can use to find coordinates and measure angles and the best part is that it is free.

esato · Post by **esato** » October 28th, 2006, 11:40 pm

Brimstone wrote: I do not know of pictures of bases for these models. Knowing MIyajima's work, I assume that after the base you will still have 50+ steps to complete the model and those you'll have to figure out on your own

I agree. Miyajimas CP's leave too much to be done after collapsing the base. His bases are normally easy to collapse, but very difficult to finish. I think there are better models to get started folding from CP's. IMO Komatsu's models' bases on the other hand are more difficult to collapse but once you have the base they are usually very easy to finish.

rockmanex6 · Post by **rockmanex6** » October 29th, 2006, 6:37 am

Knight on the pegsus it is diagram inside Magezine for knight on the dragon use graft plus some step for pegsus diagram similar knight plus start steps

.

Brimstone · Post by **Brimstone** » October 29th, 2006, 3:31 pm

origamibrent814 wrote:Those triangles that look like the claws in his rooster. Should they be folded the same way? Or should I wait and sink them after I collapse the rest of the cp?

The claws are maybe the easiest part of the CP. It doesn't matter if you fold them at the beginning or leave them till the end. When you start collpasing, just make the center crease and you can finish the rest at the end.

origamibrent814 wrote:If they would just show which creases were mountain and which were valley!

This is a very common assumption that we've all made, but it is wrong. Mountain and valley creases won't tell you much sometimes. There are some very complicated CP's involving several layers of paper and M/V don't tell you much.

A while ago an alternative method of convex / concave vertices was proposed on this forum but so far it hasn't had that much of a "general acceptance" Check viewtopic.php?t=322&highlight=convex+concave

Brimstone · Post by **Brimstone** » November 4th, 2006, 4:01 am

It had been a while since I collapsed a CP so I gave this one a try. I have special sympathy for Miyajima's CP's since they were the first ones I knew I the ones that made me want t learn how to collapse them Unfortunatelly I have only succeded with very few of his models. I mean I've collapsed many of his CP's, but I haven't gotten much far from there.

anyway here are front

and back